Confused about UV sets
Hi all,
Could someone please explain UV sets to me in beginner's language? I don't think I'm understanding them right.
I thought a UV set was the wire frame that makes up the model and the coordinates that tell textures where to map to on that frame... How close am I with that? What is it that makes textures incompatible across different UV sets?
I don't understand why there are so many different UV sets for Genesis 2, such as Victoria6, Aiko6, Giselle6, Belle6 etc etc when they all look pretty much the same. Wouldn't it make more sense for there to be just 1 UV set - the base Genesis 2 Female - and then use different morphs and textures based on that to achieve those looks instead? What do the new UV sets achieve that a morph can't do?
So confusing...
Thanks!
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The wireframe that makes up the model is known as the 'mesh. A UV map is the information which tells the computer how to display a texture on that mesh. Each point on the mesh has coordinates which point to a spot on the image, and your computer does some smart calculations to figure out how to manage the inbetween bits (otherwise known as interpolation).
What this means in laymans terms is that if you have a specific texture you're mapping to a surface and those coordinates don't match up on the mesh you're likely to see visible seams or otherwise messy results. This is because the coordinates are pointing to the same spot in the image as before, but the image is arranged differently.
There are different UV sets for different figure shapes with the Genesis figure for example. This is because the interpolation mentioned above can lead to stretching or squashing of textures if the mesh has been stretched or squashed in those dimensions as part of a figure morph.
Thanks HeraldOfFire - I think I'm beginning to understand... Kinda.
So, by example, you take a V6 character with textures and all. Then you morph that character's body into an Aiko6 shape. Whats the difference between doing that compared to just starting with the Aiko6 body and trying to apply the V6 textures straight to it?
I guess what I'm asking is, whats the difference between just morphing a pre-textured character you already own into a different shape.. vs buying a new set of UV's and textures?
Thanks HeraldOfFire - I think I'm beginning to understand... Kinda.
So, by example, you take a V6 character with textures and all. Then you morph that character's body into an Aiko6 shape. Whats the difference between doing that compared to just starting with the Aiko6 body and trying to apply the V6 textures straight to it?
I guess what I'm asking is, whats the difference between just morphing a pre-textured character you already own into a different shape.. vs buying a new set of UV's and textures?
The UVs and the morphs are not inherently linked. The new UVs are made to go with the new shape, to reduce the stretching of textures made for those UVs when they are applied to a morphed figure (at the expense, of course, of introducing stretching or compression when the textures are applied to the base shape). The path taken to the final result is not relevant - the steps of applying the shape and applying the material, which switches the UVs and assigns the textures that use them, can be performed in any order.
Simply put, if you use the right UV's for the figure, you get the better results. That's why new ones are often released with each new figure.
Think of it of how you would wrap a gift.
You could carefull fold the paper which is flatmapped around it but would get bits that needed to be folded or stretched.
A UV is like those woldmaps in odd curves to minimize stretching of land masses as opposed to the flat ones with the huge stretched Greenland and polar caps.
Only it is Vicky's nipples, freckles and moles etc being stretched depending on where you cut and flatten it.
Different morphed girls have stuff mapped differently to best fit their bulges and hollows.
While this is absolutely true, it's worth pointing out that the differences are often rather subtle, especially comparing UVs for two realistic adult female characters (as opposed to a realistic woman and a toon woman, or a male human vs. a male monster, for example).
Edited to add: the logical follow-up question is, why then are there so many different UV sets for humans, if the differences between them are subtle? And I think the best answer is, to many customers, subtle differences can be important, especially when aiming for something close to photorealism.
Thanks all. I understand it now.
Scott - yeah this is basically what I was having trouble understanding. I don't get why there are so many different UV sets to buy for humans when most of them either look virtually identical, or could have just been achieved by morphing the base Genesis 2 figures and creating new textures (right?).
When its possible to make custom body shapes from the base Genesis 2 UVs and corresponding textures to match those shapes (which some character products do), why are all the extra UV sets even necessary? Other than maximising Daz profits, obviously.
For instance - Surely its possible to create a black character using the G2 UV set and an appropriate black skin texture, so why the need for Darius and Monique 6? Are they saying that black people are so different from white people that they need their own figure and UV set?
It is a difficult issue to address. It really can come down to the sort of use to which the characters are being put. As Scott said, especially for those subtle differences, it is often about photorealism. Many users tend to produce "portrait" style renders with their human characters and attempt to make such renders as realistic as possible. The catch is, as both models and textures become increasingly detailed and realistic, close-up renders can reveal even small or subtle inconsistencies. Tailoring UV maps to specific morphs can help eliminate the stretching or compression of texture maps that others mentioned. Is it essential? well, only if the kind of subtle inconsistencies mentioned are likely to be noticeable in the renders you are doing, or if you particularly care, I guess.
(Note: it should be hypothetically possible to edit a texture map to put all the necessary details in the right places to account for any stretching or compression, but doing so may be beyond what most people are prepared to do, or even capable of. Basically you need to stretch the texture map exactly right where it will be compressed when applied to the figure, and compress the texture map exactly right where it will be stretched when fitted to the figure. Its why texture mapping is an art unto itself.)
Thanks all. I understand it now.
Scott - yeah this is basically what I was having trouble understanding. I don't get why there are so many different UV sets to buy for humans when most of them either look virtually identical, or could have just been achieved by morphing the base Genesis 2 figures and creating new textures (right?).
When its possible to make custom body shapes from the base Genesis 2 UVs and corresponding textures to match those shapes (which some character products do), why are all the extra UV sets even necessary? Other than maximising Daz profits, obviously.
For instance - Surely its possible to create a black character using the G2 UV set and an appropriate black skin texture, so why the need for Darius and Monique 6? Are they saying that black people are so different from white people that they need their own figure and UV set?
What I was trying to say is that they are not necessary, but they are desirable. At least to many customers. But it's certainly a point of contention...in fact there was a lengthy discussion already in this thread: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47948/
Ah, right, I see. Thanks guys (and gals?), its all making sense now.
I guess I can see why some might want all the extra UV maps, if one was being really particular about texture stretching, but for me it just seems like a way to try to make people buy a lot of additional products they don't really need. I keep feeling like I should buy all the figures, just in case I need them at some point, but then I stop myself and realise that the differences between Victoria, Stephanie, Olympia etc are so minor that its never going to matter to me. And from what you're all saying it sounds like I really don't need them.
I can see the point for kids figures or monsters, for example, because their physiology is quite different from the standard adult, but not for different ethnicities or slightly different adult shapes.
The problem comes though when artists create characters I really want and then I realise I have to buy a new figure in order to use it - thus doubling (or more) the price of the character. Its a bit frustrating - and expensive!
But anyway, I shouldn't really duplicate a discussion thats already out there. Thank you for the explanation everyone - I feel a lot more clued up now and its going to save me a ton of cash in the future :)