Any Questions for iMetal or iFabric Shaders? {Commercial]
Half Life
Posts: 479
My iFabic and iMetal base shaders were released today. While I put a lot of work into the included PDF manuals, I also planned to do some video tutorials, as I have for my previous products. However, I was interested in gathering any specific questions users might have before starting to record.
If you have a question about these shaders, feel free to ask in this thread, I'll do my best to get you an answer -- either here or in the upcoming videos.
Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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Comments
This looks very interesting. My first question is about the fabric shader. Can you transfer the maps from other iRay fabric presets to iFabric? If you do, does this re-create the look of the other fabric with extra realism?
There is a base shader version (along with the presets). That base shader version will convert most Iray Uber Shader-based fabrics to iFabric, with the existing textures intact. Obviously, this doesn't account for all scenarios but should be sufficient to work as a starting point in most cases.
However, there are features in these shaders for which no Iray Uber Shader analog exists (most importantly, the Sheen parameters). Those features are mappable as well, and you will not get the best possible results unless you either adjust the sliders, or load textures into those slots as needed.
So, this isn't a 1-click "make realistic" button, but the tools are there, and I've tried to make the conversion process as easy as possible for users. That's why all of my promos used existing DAZ products that were converted. That said, clearly, products made with iFabric in mind from the ground up will benefit the most.
I am going to buy this, simply because I have no idea what I'm doing in the shader mixer or builder, but I understand all the particulars behind it. And, I'd kill for a decent looking velvet in studio ;).
Then Sheen is the feature you have been waiting for
It's great for velvets, but also for simulating the "fuzzies" that t-shirts and towels often have.
I think I am going to buy this. I will be interested in any tutorials about the advanced features and how they relate to the appearance of real world materials.
Another question, do these shaders put any extra load on the iRay render engine and if they do, roughly how much? I realise that if you use extra maps for the advanced features this will take more memory. I'm asking because my video card only has 4GB video Ram and isn't very fast by current standards. I can do simple scenes in iRay but my computer soon runs into problems with complicated scenes.
Perhaps you could post more examples of the iFabric shader and what difference it makes because I am stuggling to see much difference in the product promo shots. Maybe it is my old eys but I can easily see the difference with between the metal shaders - that trumpet is a really good example - but not with the cloth.
One of my complaints about cloth - especially in plain colours - is that it doesn't look like cloth because it is so smooth (no texture). Even with bump and normal maps, it is not convincing as fabric. I'd like to see a few more examples using your shaders with plain coloured dresses, T-shirts and with other materials such as silk and chiffon.
In my experience, most aspects of the shaders take about the same amount of time to render as a standard Iray Uber shader-based material. There is one optional feature that I am adding in the update I am putting together that will increase render time by a modest amount of roughly 2.5% longer renders (which is why it is optional). I've not noticed any extra load on my video card -- textures are usually more of an issue than shaders, which are essentially just code.
The best results will be when creating brand-new materials, rather than when converting pre-existing materials using textures that are not meant to take advantage of the advanced features of the shader. Silks would be marginally better looking with iFabric, and chiffons probably would only see minimal improvement (because of the nature of those fabrics). Velvets and cottons would be the biggest beneficiaries of iFabric, with color-shifting fabrics like Taffeta being a close second. That said, you can watch the first tutorial video here to see it in action:
Essentially, what is missing with most current fabrics is the subtle sense of softness that a fabric usually has. It's probably not going to be a huge visual difference most of the time, although it can be a substantial improvement, depending on the type of fabric. I would expect differences more akin to the difference between real hardwood flooring and good quality printed vinyl "wood flooring". That vinyl flooring can often fool you until you look closely, but the real hardwood flooring has a subtle depth that is impossible to reproduce.
Ok, so I bought this and I definitely noticed the difference between my previous cotton shaders and the new shader. There is almost a fresnel to it now that I had trouble getting with the regular Uber shader. I was using low settings in backscatter to make cottons look "softer" which works to a degree, but you still don't get the true "look" of fabric as much ;) There is only a subtle difference marble, but it's definitely there, and sometimes subtle makes a world of difference, like with the metals. As for metals, I've been disappointed with the metals I created in the Uber shader since day one. I could never set the IOR below 100 and quite a few metals (the likely candidates being gold and silver) have an IOR that's less than 1 (gold is .47 and silver is eighty-something...I'll have to look it up again...lol). So, I'm extremely happy there ;)
I'm glad to hear you found them helpful. A resource I always use when it comes to IOR (and K) values is: https://refractiveindex.info/
I think I got my answer from the promos, but I still wan't to ask. Can we use translucency with iFabric? Maybe a hidden parameter?
On a side note, if you ever decide to make an update or a new fabric shader, I am looking for a shader that has an extra slot for micro bump/normal maps. Like the new pbr skin shader has.
I've been using Fabiana's shaders for fabric pretty much exclusively, but I can already tell I'm going to get a lot of mileage out of these. The knitted fabric here uses her maps with the iFabric velvet preset tweaked a lot, and the main jacket fabric uses the flannel preset with some maps from this set in the glossy weight and bump channels. I was just messing around to see what damage I could do but I liked the results enough that I'll probably keep it.
iFabric does not support translucency at this time. I considered it but felt it was not a necessary feature for most fabrics. However, I could definitely see the utility for things that would be seen backlit, like tents, awnings, and tarps. For me, it came down to the fact that if the shader is backlit you won't really be able to see the surface properties as much -- meaning the Iray Uber shader is more than sufficient for those use cases. However, I acknowledged this might be something users could want to be added (in the manual), and I am open to that feedback. For that sake of clarity: I have preliminary work done on a skin shader, which would incorporate SSS. And I feel too much overlap in functionality would eventually get us back to an unwieldy beast like the Iray Uber shader. Keeping my shaders bloat-free is a design priority for me.
The micro-bump thing is super easy to implement. So I will play with the idea and see if it offers a qualitative improvement over what is possible with the shader as it exists currently.
I'm glad you are finding iFabric useful. I've also found iMetal gives nice looks on leather as well. The foundation of iMetal is like the Iray Uber shader "Dual Lobe Specular" -- but with several improvements: 3 lobes instead of 2, all lobes fully utilize the normal/bump maps, and it works the same on both glossy and metal surfaces.
The metal shaders look great (I've been fighting with metals since Poser 6). The fabdric shaders are more subtle to my eyes. Do you have plans to expand this into plastics, woods, etc...?
Looks really great! :)
Oh I will be so interested to see that. Seems I spend half my life tweaking skin shaders and I am never quite satisfied with the results. I try for that nice SSS backlit glow but don't know how to achieve it.
As per, 'the best results will come from creating your own shaders,' is this a 'merchant resource'?
Yes, absolutely.
The iMetal shader is already really good for non-SSS plastics and woods. It's really a flexible all-around shader for hard surfaces. The reason I went with the name iMetal is because it is most exceptional for metal objects, but I happily use it for all kinds of hard surfaces (Wood, Plastic, Leather, etc.).
Looks nice, but if it requires so much tweaks, I just wish list the set for now.
Great
So, I should read the PDF?
Thank you for the excellent video, and thanks for including the clear understandable audio.
If you're the type of person who likes to learn in written form, then yes. I put a lot of work into those PDFs, so they would probably be useful to almost anybody to read. That said, I'll put together a video tutorial showing how to use iMetal for non-metallic surfaces too.
Into the cart it has gone. Will check to see if it triggers any sales of use to me then make my purchase. I appreciate your communications.
Good to know! So then we can use these to build materials for products, correct?
Yes, absolutely. I built these for use in my own products and renders because I was often unhappy with the limitations of the Iray Uber shader. I hope many other creators will find the process much more enjoyable and the results more rewarding. I've also created matching Substance Designer "New Substance" templates and MDL shaders to help content creators maximize the potential of these shaders. I am working on the distribution of those tools and tutorial videos showing how to use them.
Excellent, I look forward to using these then! Into my cart they go! :D
These are my first attempts. The black velvet looks pretty convincing from a distance, but up close it lacks the detail of the fiber nap that velvet would have.