Comparing and Contrasting 8 and 8.1 Female Figures

vijayasimhabr

Previously, owing to my general inexperience with Daz 3D, I was beginning to ignore 8.0 Figures. I thought, I will only Focus on 8.1 Figures. However, now that I have bought a bunch of figures (both 8 and 8.1), I am noticing a few things. "New means Better" was my mantra.

There is obviously a ton of figures, clothes, poses and props related to 8.0. I am assuming 8.0 is sort of like Windows 10. It's been around for a while. 8.1 is sort of like Windows 11, new and about to become the main thing. However, 8.0 is still very much valid.

Because of 8.0 maturity, there is a lot of variety. I mean the collection of figures for 8.0 is just massive. For 8.1, there are like 20 or 30 options, I think. Now, my quesion is...I get this odd feeling that 8.0 female figures seem to be more beautiful than 8.1 figures. Specifically with expressions. When I use Expression presets, somehow, 8.0 figures with expressions (designed for 8.0 only) seem to appear more natural, than, 8.1 with expressions (designed for 8.1 only). Earlier, I was working alone but now I am working with some other folks, gathering 2nd and 3rd opinion, showing them my renders. They seem to agree with me.

I want to know why I feel this way?

Is it because, because of its wider variety, I am choosing 8 figures which seem more Asian Indian/Mexican/Latina (I am from India), so they appear more beautiful to me and my team? Unfortunately there are not many Asian Indian/Mexican/Latina looking 8.1 figures yet, so we are making do with the limited selection available. Or, because the available variations are so limited, and I feel like they are all the same, and my eyes are just feeling unattracted to them.

Also, the few 8.1 expression pose sets I have purchased, seem to apply the presets unnaturally. In 8.0, the face of the figure is retained. However, in 8.1, it appears as if the expression presets are modifying/distorting the face of the figure, making them look different. I dont know if this is a fault with the expression products I am buying for 8.1, or a fault with how 8.1 is designed. Of course, perhaps it is not a fault, but is a feature and my eyes are not able to accept it due to cultural reasons.

I dont know if I am putting my views across correctly. I am not even sure if this is a real problem or simply a perceived problem. I apologize if I am not being clear enough.

margrave

It really depends.

I mostly use 8.0 figures because, as you mentioned, it's older and there's more options available. Also, 8.0 allows you to use PowerPose to very quickly create your own expressions (I never buy expression packs, since the expressions I make often look way better than anything for sale, sorry). Some people say you can get PowerPose working for 8.1, but I haven't, so I'm stuck using 8.1's FACS facial rig.

Speaking of, one of the biggest improvements for 8.1 was the implementation of FACS. There's a new facial control rig, and I think the vertices/bones were altered. In theory, it should allow for more scientifically accurate expressions.

But using the rig produces some...mixed results.

I posted the results of my experimentation here:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/487036/anatomy-of-facial-expression-a-genesis-8-1-companion-guide

8.1 should theoretically offer improved expressions, but there's a learning curve since you also have to become familiar with the redesigned facial system and how all the controls work. I suspect that's why many of the 8.1 expression packs look off as well, since the PAs are also still learning how to use it.

Visuimag

I completely disagree with expressions. 8.1's look far better. Male or female. It's a considerable change that looks far better.

 

This is on top of other little changes that make 8.1 stand out, such as how the shders look on the figure. You can make them look exactly the same until you start messing with the face and 8.1 shines most there. I often find myself going back and recreating figures from the G8 era simply because I can get true-to-life expressions out of 8.1. 

margrave

I made this comparison test. The one on the left is Sanjay 8, the one on the right is a Genesis 8.1 Dev Load with Sanjay's morph and materials applied.

Sanjay 8 was posed with PowerPose and a few basic sliders (Cheek Crease, Eyes Relax, etc.). Sanjay 8.1 was posed with the FACS facial rig.

I don't know if I'd say 8.1 is a huge improvement. It does seem to offer better deformation and lifts the lips a bit higher than a maxed PowerPose--though if you know what you're doing, you can easily tweak an 8.0 expression with the Face Template to exaggerate it. The 8.1 rig also means you have to surrender a lot of control to the rig, which moves several parts of the face at once and make it harder to fine-tune things like eyebrows, which are a cinch to control with PowerPose. I guess it's personal preference whether you want a lot of control over the fine details (8.0 and PowerPose) or if you want a few controls that automate everything (8.1 and the FACS rig).

vijayasimhabr

@Visuimag

I dont know Daz enough to agree or disagree with your thoughts, he he :) Still very much a newbie here.

@margrave

I read what you have said. Yes, I have been limiting myself to ready to use face expressions. I will eventually try with my own expressions at least (if not poses).

Now, for a very stupid question. I can locate the power pose tool. Window > Panes > Power Pose (and other tools as well). I have never used the pose tool, so far.

Now, where is the FACS facial rig? How do I locate it. Since I am dissatisifed with ready to use 8.1 expression products, perhaps, its time I learnt them.

Also, why are you using the Dev Load? Why arent using the 8.1 regular load?

Further, so, 8 figures can be applied to 8.1 default figure? ah. I never tried that. i simply assumed they would not work. Would that work just for body shapes or head shapes get applied too?

Hylas

I tend to like 8.1 expressions better than 8.0 and it's the main reason I moved pretty quickly from 8.0 to 8.1 once the latter was released.

However

1) expressions are just hard to get right, period.

2) not all expressions look good on all figures. Something that looks great on one figure might make another look strange.

3) 8.0 expressions are not to be dismissed, some of my favourite expression packs are still 8.0.

 

I enabled 8.0 expressions on 8.1 and now I just use all of them mixed together. Loving the expanded possibilities!

 

(And yes, you can use 8.0 morphs and materials on 8.1 figures.)

 

@margrave: In your example 8.0 looks much better than 8.1... however it looks to me like you're just more used to working with 8.0 than with 8.1 expressions? Not sure if this really serves as a comparison between the 2 generations.

margrave

@vijayasimhabr

You can find the facial rig inside the Genesis 8 Starter Kit. It's under Anatomy, I think.

I use a Dev Load because I know I'm not going to use the default skin textures, so there's no point loading them in.

8.1 is ultimately still an 8.0 figure. AFAIK, you can use every single 8.0 morph and texture set. Just apply a character's shaping preset and their materials, and it should look virtually identical.

@Hylas

It proves my point that it takes time to become proficient with the facial rig, though.

vijayasimhabr

@Hylas

Still too new to Daz to respond to what you have written. Neverthelss, I have made note of your suggestions. Thank you :)

@margrave

Ah! I see. Under Anatomy. Awesome. 

Not using the default textures, understood. 

Overall, I see that there is indeed a learning curve with the new facial rig. I dont mind spending a few bucks till I get the right facial expressions pack. Natural evoluation of skills, I am sure I will eventually pick up the neccessary expression skills. 

Thank you, as always, folks.