Daz 3D and RAM 16GB and 32 GB Relationship

vijayasimhabr

I have an ageing (2 and half years old) HP Gaming PC. Intel i5, 8th gen. 16 GB RAM with GTX 1060 6 GB with high speed SSD drives on both OS and asset drives. Since installing Daz 3D a few weeks, my computer is being brought to its knees on a daily basis. Especially when I go for the final Render. The CPU hits 100 %. The RAM hits 100 %. The computer can barely run until the render finishes even on the most basic scenes. I also noticed that the GPU is rarely used. The rendering always falls back on the CPU. After reading many, many forum threads, I understood that GTX 1060 is simply inadequate for GPU rendering. I have accepted that.

I figured, my computer is old. I am anyway in the process of getting a new RTX 3060 computer soon. So, that's fine. The new computer should be ready this week.

Then, Since, I was anyway buying a new computer, I decided to buy some new RAM for my HP Machine. Replaced the two 8 GB sticks with two 16 GB Gaming memory sticks from crucial. Now, I have 32 GB memory.

This is the confusing part. Now, the rendering is smooth. It's not faster or anything. But CPU does not go above 50 to 60 %. memory is 30 to 40 % usage.

So, just trying to understand this change in behavior?

1. Why was Daz using the entire 16 GB available before?
2. Now, why is it using only roughly 12 GB total, when there is 32 GB?
3. The new RAM modules are faster, premium gaming grade memory modules. So, is Daz better, simply because I have better quality and newer RAM.
4. Lastly, on my new computer with RTX 3060, I am installing 64 GB RAM once it arrives. is that overkill for Daz? Or, should I remain with 32 GB, save myself a few bucks?

Just a general curiousity. Soon, I will be working on my RTX computer anyway, but curious.

PerttiA

I have i7, 64GB's of RAM and an RTX 2070 super (8GB) on Windows 7 ultimate and a while back I did some testing to see how much RAM and VRAM was in use with DS and expecially when rendering IRAY.

Started with a G8 figure that had light weight clothing and hair (Case A)
Added 3 more G8 characters with light weight clothing and hair together with architecture (Case B)
Increased SubD on the characters to see at which point the rendering would drop to CPU (Cases C and D)

As can be seen, even when Case B was rendering on GPU, it used more than 32MB's of RAM and when you run out of RAM windows starts using your drives to extend your memory and that is when you are no longer able to do anything else with the computer.

I had 32GB's a year ago and I did occasionally experience unresponsiveness, but after upgrading to 64GB's it hasn't happened anymore.

Cenobite

I have 256GB ram for my 10th gen i9 extreme intel core with windows pro so it recognise's the full 256GB it's a 4.5ghz proccessor with 10 physical cores 20 logical so my banks are full for this board 8 slots with 32 GB sticks in each slot. You need to understand computing power to understand how this power is distributed. basically all the pipes are fed the full amount of ram the core can handle, this makes things quicker upto the point something has been optimised for. Most laptops or PC's are 8, 16 or 32GB with maybe quad cores or upto logical 16 cores, gamers might use 64gb or 128gb at most to put it into perspective, to run games say you wouldn't require more then 16gb but would run better with 32gb onboard plus whatever your GPU has in Vram which most cards are about 8GB.. The graphics card i'm using has 12gb Vram.

You also have to think about hard drive speeds because you don't want to bottle neck information, it's best to have the quickest SSD's you can plug in, in my case i use EVO SSD ME.2 drives they slot into the mainboard and are about the size of a small usb stick.

My PC rarely uses all this power, but over time the power becomes useful as people update systems to higher specs.

 

vijayasimhabr

@PerttiA and @Cenobite

Ah. You folks have given me the exact information I am looking for.

I know now that 64 GB wont be over kill. That was the most important useful information for me. I was already happy with 16 GB with 1060. 64 GB with 3060 would make me even more happy, he he. Like giving ice water to a guy stranded on a desert. :)

Further, yes, I am going all in on NVME. All the drives on the new computer is NVME. I was thinking of mixing SSD and NVME but now, I have chnaged my mind on that. It will cost me an arm and leg, but, it should be worth it. It makes sense, more stuff on the scene, more resources will be consumed. Especially with that table. Very good. Useful to me.

As always, this community, always very good. Thank you folks.

vijayasimhabr

Folks

I tested your suggestions. Oh yeah, RAM usage is bumping up as more characters are added and CPU is back at 100 % usage. You guys are absolutely right.

Thanks again for the all the help.

Cenobite

Cost wise if you buy the better stuff yes its more expensive but you get more out of the system over the long haul, my old machine is still good runs everything it's 15 years old intel core 2 quad core has a maximum of 8gb on board has a video card 8gb 1070ti nvida which runs most things fine, total 16 gb if you combine both gpu ram & gpu but the gpu ram tends to be for virtual ram dedicated for display & frames per second. Doesn't produce as good render it's no where near as quick as my new machine and can't handle real heavy scenes like my new machine can.

When it comes to ram you can always add more ram if you buy a good CPU and the mainboard that supports it, start off with the minimum if you have too then buy better parts later.

I'll also mention new mainboards support Bitcoin mining you can switch this on in BIOS settings now days dedicate core power to mining so i think ram helps with that too not sure but i do know CPU power does and ram effects paging and other stuff so i figure it would Bitcoin mining aswell if i decided to do that.

PerttiA

Cenobite said:

Cost wise if you buy the better stuff yes its more expensive but you get more out of the system over the long haul, my old machine is still good runs everything it's 15 years old intel core 2 quad core has a maximum of 8gb on board has a video card 8gb 1070ti nvida which runs most things fine, total 16 gb if you combine both gpu ram & gpu but the gpu ram tends to be for virtual ram dedicated for display & frames per second. Doesn't produce as good render it's no where near as quick as my new machine and can't handle real heavy scenes like my new machine can.

When it comes to ram you can always add more ram if you buy a good CPU and the mainboard that supports it, start off with the minimum if you have too then buy better parts later.

I'll also mention new mainboards support Bitcoin mining you can switch this on in BIOS settings now days dedicate core power to mining so i think ram helps with that too not sure but i do know CPU power does and ram effects paging and other stuff so i figure it would Bitcoin mining aswell if i decided to do that.

The VRAM on the GPU has nothing to do with virtual memory, and do not be fooled by the way W10 reports RAM and VRAM, they can not and will not be combined in what we do.

jestmart

VRAM = Video Random Access Memory.  Virtual memory is when our computer uses the harddrive as memory.

vijayasimhabr

@Cenobite

I am inagreement with your recommendation. My mother board supports 128 GB RAM with two slots. It's a mini PC from Zotac. However, the minimum RAM I can afford (have been saving up for months) is 32 GB. So, getting that this week. Next month, will bump it up to 64 GB. Hopefully, the RTX card has 12 GB VRAM. Hopefully, that will add up to the overall RAM and help me out with heavy renders.

In our country, we have an old saying. 'Extend your feet to the length of the bed'. So, that's what I am going to do. Render to the limits of the 64 GB regular RAM + 12 GB VRAM. Anything more demanding than that, I would rather stay away from that type of rendering. Limit myself, he he :)

Thank you for your advice.

jestmart

It is not 64 + 12.  If a render excedes your VRAM it drops to CPU (unless you uncheck the CPU in advance render settings).

frank0314

RAM annd VRAM serve two different purposes in Daz Studio. The do not combine to equal a total # of RAM

nonesuch00

DAZ Studio should default to using only 1/3 to 1/2 the available CPU cores threads in CPU affinity. 

Richard Haseltine

nonesuch00 said:

DAZ Studio should default to using only 1/3 to 1/2 the available CPU cores threads in CPU affinity. 

Why?

vijayasimhabr

@jestmart  @frank0314

Ah! it does not combine. That is new information for me. I have added that to my Daz work notes. Thank you.

@nonesuch00

I dont quiet understand this, but, I will try to find more information about what you typed. Thank you.

jestmart

If the render drops to CPU it wil push every core to their max make it nearly impoosible to do anything else.  Restricting the render to only use some, not all of the cores you can still do other work at the cost the render taking more time.

Richard Haseltine

jestmart said:

If the render drops to CPU it wil push every core to their max make it nearly impoosible to do anything else.  Restricting the render to only use some, not all of the cores you can still do other work at the cost the render taking more time.

Sure, but that doesn't mean restricting it as severly - and even then, a CPU render at 100% will not always render a machine unresponsive (it did on my old machine, but not on this one).

vijayasimhabr

Folks,

on both my computer and my old computer (i5 10th gen and i5 8th gen respectively), the computer goes almost unusable. So, lately, I have decided to not use the computer when I put it for render.  I am still new, so, dont want to jump into the  CPU affinity stuff. But, perhaps, at a future time, a few months down the line.

I have 5 computers in my home office, with one computer dedicated solely for Daz work. So, as of now, I will let Daz do what it wants, consume everything.  Take the path of least resistance as of now, since I have resources to spare.