8 and 8.1 is essentially double dipping?
vijayasimhabr
Posts: 204
I only started with Daz a few weeks ago. I am still learning the tools, and I am new to this whole 3D art space itself. I dont know how new or old Version 8 system is, but to me, this entire 8 and 8.1 system seems to like a painful way to manage things.
It all started with the purchase of an expression pack. It was designed for 8, so I assumed compatiblity with 8.1. turns out, expressions are not compatible with 8.1. At least in this pack. I am not linking the actual pack here on purpose.
Since this incident, now, there is an element of doubt in all my purchases. Should I even buy 8.1 items? Or, should I stick to 8 only, and let go off of whatever goodness 8.1 is supposed to bring.
After much internal discussion, I have now told myself that I will only buy 8.0 assets and 8.0 models/figures only. I work as a software developer, and it seems like a poor way of handling version compatibility. It's frustrating. Even more frustrating because, the studio keeps showing the expressions as being compatible with 8.1, but it clearly is not.
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Comments
Short answer is that almost everything works out of the box for 8 and 8.1 (if you want to ue 8 expresions on 8., read this: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/477386/how-to-get-genesis-8-expressions-working-on-genesis-8-1). Your 8 isn't going anywhere but more and more products will be geared toward 8.1. I do feel your pain: I purchased a powermac just as the intel macs were introduced, and had to do a big repair just as the M1's were introduced. Technoolgy doesn't stand still as a drawer full of serial port cables and SCSI cables can attest. Nonetheless, this is a pretty gentle transition. One note, you may have redelete the files mentioned in the link with every big update. The reason that your expressions don't work initially is that 8 and 8.1 have subtle differences in their anatomy and, especially, facial rigging. Once you follow the steps in the link, your expressions should work with some rare exceptions. Daz3d wanted to be safe and placed dummy files to block confusing conflicts.
Here's the thing to keep in mind. G8.1 is basically Genesis 8 Revision 2. The other option would have been to do what they did with Genesis 3 to Genesis 8 and release it as Genesis 9 which might have broken all of the morphs, poses, and costumes as well as the expressions and the issue it causes Geoshell based products (was it really nessasary to rename the Torso surface, guys? Really?)
@nemesis10
I agree with everything you said. I am new to 3D, but I am not new to technology. I work as software developer with a home office that resembles a mini Apple store, he he :P True...technology does not stand for anybody. I have investigated the link you have provided and see if it helps me. I am still new, so, I will play it safe and stick to buying and using 8.0 only for now.
8.0 might be old but a ton of 8.0 products are constantly on sale. I am mostly doing Daz 3D as a side hobby to keep myself occupied as I ride out this pandemic. So, it's all good. I am just glad that I am not the only one who feels the pain of this 8.0 and 8.1 differences and annoyances.
@Psyckosama
Yes. This is definitely the better option. Agreed.
Oh, I was encouraging you to be more daring since the steps to get 8.0 to work on 8.1 are so trivial.... If you choose to only deal with 8.0, you aren't future proofing yourself. You can load pretty much all characters, textures, props and poses on 8.1, with that link, you can use pretty much all 8.0 expressions plus the new 8.1 ones, and you will see an increasing number of products. I would recommend that you continue buying 8.0 products too but not lock yourself in an older depricating technology.
Really depends on what you're doing in regards to your projects. I use 8.1 for nearly all my recent still-render projects now. The non-functional expressions haven't been an issue since my favorite ones have been morphs PAs have made (like Tongue Control https://www.daz3d.com/tongue-control-hd-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-female-and-male ) and the DAZ Original ones that don't come with poses.
Only time I use 8.0 is if I'm creating morphs or experimenting with skin settings, that way it can used by both Genesis 8 versions. Or if I need to apply a Geoshell and load both 8.0 and 8.1 to copy materials and save the Geoshell as a wearable preset for 8.1.
You were just unlucky to have started with an expressions pack, of all things.
Almost everything 8.0 works on 8.1. Expressions are one of the few exceptions.
However there's an easy way around it, you can make 8.0 expressions work on 8.1 characters, as nemesis10 mentiones.
For other 8.0 products that don't work immediately with 8.1 - and they really are the exception! - there's usually a way to make it work anyway with a bit of fiddling.
Also, just mentioning it because you're new to the store, there's a 30 day money back rule. You don't have to give a reason.
Moved to Technical Help as it is not a Product Suggestion.
@nemesis10
I promise that I will upgrade myself eventually. As I roam through these forums, everyday I am making notes and making plans. But perhaps, not right away. Taking it slow.
@MimicMolly
[That is one scary product photo in that product link, he he :P]
As of now, yet to play around with those things. As of now, happy to just purchase ready to use expressions. But, I will eventually get there. Still learning my way around this tool. But, I have added your link and advice to my notes.
@Hylas
Ah! Just my luck indeed. I did not know about the money back policy. I bought it on a sale + PC discount. I think I will just keep it, despite its faults. Whoever made it, let the person keep the money. It's alright with me. But, I will make a note of the 30 day thing for future reference. In case I make a big purchase and regret it and such.
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I think, for the time being, I will just buy a 8.1 expression pack as well. As you folks have mentioned, it's only expressions that have this problem. Rest of it, should work just fine. Thank you to all, as always.
I stick to 8 but there are a few items that do 8 & 8.1 so some character bundles will have an 8 actor & 8.1. look under smart content tab under figures to see what generations aresupplied with characters, sometimes you get gen 3 & 8 or 8 & 8.1....
8.1 characters make a mess of older scripts used for gen8 it can also mess with some outfits or poses. most cases the 8.1 stuff will work for 8 but basically i think 8's are better to work with. 8.1 seems more like a gimmick i see no difference in the models i have some highly detailed gen 8's that look just as good as 8.1 i don't see any model movement improvements, it's not like this generation uses poses from every generation without conversion, supoose this is the reason why they called it 8.1 because it's no where near enough to be called a whole new generation.
@Cenobite
Now that I have had to play some more with the Daz assets - 8 and 8.1, and since I am starting new, I have now decided to limit myself to 8.1 only. Yes, this means, I miss out on all the content from years related to 8. for example, I wanted to use tattoos but I found no 8.1 compatible tattoos. So, I am definitely missing out.
Fortunately, I am new, and I have no previous collection or assets from the days of 8. and my needs are very simple that 8.1 assets are sufficient for the time being.
I also dont see much of a difference in 8 and 8.1 renders and I agree. I believe there is a minor improvement and that is why it is 8.1, and not something new like 9. I agree with your assessment, despite my limited experience witih Daz and 3D in general.
I dont know if I need to start an entire thread for it but, I just bought Victoria 8 ... I assumed it would come with 8.1 like most other characters do. Am I a sucker for buyin 8 when 8.1 was for the same price?
Not sure what you mean when you say "it would come with 8.1 like most other characters do"
V8 can be loaded as a 8.1 character.
Her skin has the 8.0 UV, not the 8.1 UV... but that's true for every 8.0 character.
@HyeVltg3
I am newcomer like yourself (and I have a couple of purchases already that I regret, and most of it has to do with old, 8.0 specific purchases). Before the return window closes, return it and get 8.1 edition please. I wont go into lengthy explanations, except to say, I personally prefer 8.1. Since we (you and I) are new, we might as well, just get the new stuff.
Victoria 8 and 8.1 look completely different, so if you like look of Victoria 8 that is the one need to learn to use.