4.15 does not USE GPU! render refuses to render without CPU then leaves GPU idle
dragoneyes002
Posts: 205
as the title states 4.15 is not using the RTX GPU's to render it quite literally refuses to render if you have a high poly scene (Black screen refusal) include CPU and it renders but pushes the entire render onto the CPU.
the GPU is 100% idle running at 35C <<< idle temp using under 10% of VRAM <<<< other applications using that. VRAM clock at Idle.
there is no question that the latest version of Daz is not in any way working with the newest cards by Nvidia it doesn't tap the card at all once the scene gets beyond doing single character portraits!
worse is the roll out of 8.1 characters has changed the starter essentials which have adversly affected previous versions of Daz they now simply do the same black screen renders/refuse to render as 4.15
just how long will we be left hanging with this rediculous lack of function of the core program? this is not a new problem and so far there has been no fix or even any word of a fix. threads which discuss the problem are being closed or buried by the staff.
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and which driver are you using?
feb. studio driver released days ago. problem existed before the latest driver
Yet other people are using the latest nVidia cards successfully - and if I understand you you have also lost versions of DS which weere working/ Rolling back to a slightly older driver version may help, if not you may need tio use DDU to do a full uninstall and reinstall (ideally with a driver version known to work with Iray).
Problem with that statement is two fold. 1) I get the card running fine on simple renders. which is likely why people who parse their scenes will be unlikely to run into this issue. 2) when a scene is heavy on polygons without CPU fall back in older versions of DAZ the GPU still rendered regardless of the load it'd be slow but would happen. now it's as if the Program pre calculates the scene against the VRAM (ignoring available RAM) <<< they are supposed to work together. then refuses to render the scene if the VRAM has been exceeded. this leaves RAM and virtual memory unused and certainly no Scratch disc usage.
the older version I have has been disabled (will no longer render) ever since the change/update of the Starter essentials for the 8.1 characters. the 4.11 version is a stand alone installation just using the the same "My Daz Library" as the 4.15 version.
when having spent on increasing RAM/new card/new MB/more storage/faster storage having the core program become markedly less functional than previous versions but full of new bells and whistles to sell it is annoying.
worse is the older version being disabled(by whatever the cause) as well
CPU fallback on was the unstated default - if the card's VRAM is exhauiusted (during render set up, it isn't pre-calculated) then the render has always dropped to CPU if enabled (which would be the slow renders you saw before we had the opportunity to switch fallback off). If it is rendering light scenes and not others then it would seem that the others are in fact exceeding the available VRAM - you didn't initially mention this. Genesis 8 has not been changed by Genesis 8.1, if scenes have stopped rendering using the older version of DS with Genesis 8 when they did render ebfore then it is almost certainly down to the driver or some other configuration setting(s).
okay let's go over this! 1) can't dig into 4.11 currently in 4.15 rendering (CPU only doing the work) so can't be sure if that version also had or not CPU choice, as I ponder I think not it's 4.12 that started it if not mistaken!
2)VRAM exhausted should not drop a render completely that is what shared RAM virtual RAM and Scratch discs are for. DAZ creates a black canvas and shuts down the render<<< this is new to 4.15 not 4.14 or before.
3) I'm not talking about having 8.1 characters in a scene. the scenes in question are usually Gen 8 characters only. but the sudden stop of rendering for the 4.11 version stand alone install I have, occured when the new 8.1 characters were rolled out and the new version of Starter essentials was installed. Prior to that update of the files 4.11 worked if 4.15 refused a render, it no longer does and now does the same black canvas and shut down.
4) so which drivers do work? so far this problem has not been solved by previous versions nor the latest ones. am I supposed to go back to drivers older than my current card?
I'm nor sure when the option to block CPU fallback came in, 4.10 or 4.11 sounds about right. Before the option was available CPU fallback always happened (the option was ibntroduced because a lot of people prefer to try optimisng the render so it will fit the GPU, rather than have the machine grind away doing a CPU render).
The render has always dropped the GPU, either to CPU (older versions of DS or recent versions with CPU fallback enabled) or simply stopping (CPU fallback disabled in recent versions of DS).
The Genesis 8.1 update added a new set of assets for Genesis 8.1, 8.0 was not changed.
I don't know - you might check the benchmark thread in which peiople have posted results for 4.15 using 30x0 cards https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/341041/daz-studio-iray-rendering-hardware-benchmarking
System RAM has never been used to extend VRAM when rendering Iray scenes, if you were previously rendering those scenes but slowly, then the rendering has been done by the CPU.
People are rendering complex scenes on RTX and DS 4.15, but if the scene uses more VRAM that's available, falling back to CPU or not rendering at all are the only options.
You have not mentioned which RTX card you have, what assets have you loaded in your scene or included a logfile that people could check what is the actual problem.
I shoulf have added that the log file (Help>Troubleshooting>View Log File) will give messages passed from iray which should tell you at which point it is running out of memory, or if it is encountering other issues that cause the render to terminate.
firt reply: part 2) CPU fallback may have been built in but refusal to render sure was NOT! I've rendered scenes with as many as 19 high poly characters in a fully fleshed out scene on a GTX 1070 (DAZ vs 4.09/4.10/4.11) at 4.12 not so much the limit was 15 characters and the scene.
4.14 further reduced the load to 8 characters and scene 4.15 has failed to render (this is a bug) 3 characters but is as 4.14 and limiting at 8.
part 3) what they added or not may well be 100% irrelevent BUT that was when 4.11 stopped functioning and will no longer render at all<<< that is the only change which has occured to the shared library.
second reply:
RTX 3080 Aourus Master/ 64 gb RAM Gskill3200mhz / Ryzen 3900X / Gen 4 NVME 2 TB / 23 TB of other Drive space / B550 MB (graphics)Driver version: 27.21.14.6172
currently rendering can't exactly get much from DAZ at the moment will add in other reply
The GPU driver version is not correct, or you are not using compatible GPU drivers, have you downloaded them from here; https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx ?
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6380756/#Comment_6380756
4.15.0.2 (January 7, 2021)
well looking at the log seems it may not be identifying the VRAM that exists. if you look at the upper circled part its saying there is 20.622 MiB of space even though it reads the total further down.
oh right here is the scene I was rendering: may have 5 chars but really not exactly off the charts for polies
Hey Guys,
Same thing here with a RTX 2080 Ti. CPU (core i9) at 100 %, GPU at 1 or 2 %. Same thing after installing today the last nvidia driver version.
If someone have an idea to solve this, it would be very welcome
Nvidia driver version: 461.72 studio the other is the system drivers also up to date
You are simply running out of VRAM and if you have disabled CPU fallback, there is nothing to render with, what do you have running at the same time with DS?
You have to get the memory footprint down if you want to render with the GPU, use a lower SubD, and find out how big are the textures for the trees and reduce their size.
Are the trees and rocks from a store-bought scene (which one?) or have you kitbashed them yourself?
Close down DS, wait a while and open it again.
Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File
Select everything on the log and press delete on your keyboard, close the log and select "Save" when asked.
Open your scene and start rendering and stop after 5 minutes.
Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File
Save the logfile somewhere you can easily find it
Attach the log to your post with the "Attach a file" under the "Leave a Comment" window, that way we can have a look at it.
Do you have CPU Fallback enabled or disabled? I'm getting a little confused.
I haev seen others have issues with 461.72 - 456.71 seems to work OK for me, with a 2080Ti, though as others have said I think your issue with thats cene is simply its memory requirement. It may be worth check Window>Panes(Tabs)>Scene Information to get the polygon count as well as trying to estimate how much space the texturs consume.
It's not running out of memory/ Poly count. its product no longer working.
i'll be adding log and screen shots to show the fall back can actually be off for the scene MINUS specific HAIR's the scene is currently rendering on GPU only. something strange is in the log as you can see the CPU was turned off for the retry after removing the Hair's getting warnings. Iray 1.14 says alls good lets go Iray 1.2 again says out of memory reverting back to CPU but as you can see the CPU is not on nor was it used (Task manager)shows this.
ok broke out another scene which definitely exceeds the VRAM a must run on CPU fall back. and we're back to the original problem the moment CPU fallback starts the GPU no longer has any part in the render besides an expensive memory allocation.<<<< this is the problem. sorry about the pics quality taken through tinted glass. the GPU is not running while the CPU does all the work. which in effect make DAZ the lesser choice to render a heavy scene. may as well set the scene up and simply bridge it to Blender to Vray render it.
this scene will not fit into the 10gb o vram (you had rtx 2080ti right?)
i have the rtx3090 now and i know it.
its probably around 12-14gb of vram
but its an easy check if you download the gpu-z program
Edit: polys has nothing to do with gpu ram usage its the textures thats eats it
That is how it has worked all the time, if the memory consumption exeeds what the GPU has to offer, the rendering is handed over to CPU and GPU does not participate in it any more.
If the GPU drops out then it won't be used at all, though memory will not immediately clear (I'm not sure if it's still the case but in the past it was necessary to restart DS to clear the memory).I'm not sure, in one of your examples where there appears to be a lot of memory free, whether Iray can offer up a large chunk of data and have it refuxed without actually taking GPU RAm (so it might look as if there was stil a lot in play). It does look as if there may be issues, whether fatal or not I don't know, with the hair shader used - unfortunately there have been some changes in Iray that can cause shaders to fail; some may be bugs, in which case we need nVidia to fix them, soem may be deliberate chnages, in which case a product update may be required.
You won't see 100% memory usage with Iray in any event - Windows reserves some memory. 9.6GB out iof 10GB does look like the amount avaialble to Iray has reached its limit.
Geometry does count, you can save VRAM by lowering subdivision level for example. But textures are usually the biggest culprit.
Normally I see textures taking 10-15 times more memory than geometry.
Yes, but high levels of SubD for rendering can be an issue
actually it does fit 10gb of VRAM the moment I changed the two hair which have some bug [WARNING] to no hair and even other hair the scene easily rendered with no CPU fall back. the class scene with eleven characters and the set on the other hand weighs in at 9.5 gb before even starting and has no chance of rendering without the CPU. seems DS leony and Alice hair have a texture issue the latest versions bug out on.
Your absolutely right! its why trees are made with planes and not individual leaves when you model. most modeling is premised by CUT back as many subdivisions and poly's as possible to attain your shape. the problem and best part of Iray is that it depends on textures as the basis of definition which is why you see higher counts of vs geometry. the use of billboards which can if used correctly look like fully in scene characters with nearly no geometry to speak of is a dead give away of that.
Hi All,
So I'm here at this thread because my renders keep randomly dropping to CPU, and I'm wondering why.
I'm used to seeing that happen when I say, render 3 images one after another and leave them open. Then the 4th generally renders with the CPU. I think we're all mostly used to that and have a feel for when it's a caused by a complex scene and know when to just make one render at a time and close before trying the next, or remove something from the scene.
But, now something's changed with 4.15, and it's really weird. I've been struggling with this for a week or more now, but today I really got to see this mess up clearly, and I know that it's not a Vram too small issue.
First, I'd like to say that in some cases Iray renders happen at lightening speed compared to before, and I'm really impressed with what Daz has done with Iray of late. I'm actually quite thrilled at the improvements in 4.15. It's really a lot more usable speed wise now :)
But,
So the other day I loaded a GF8 with no hair or clothes and rendered out 12 renders, in Iray at 1920 x 960, one after the other, and did not close any of them. They rendered out really fast - I mean really fast, like in 20 - 30 seconds, depending upon if they were close ups or more distant views. I stopped after 12 because that was enough and I'd never seen my GTX 1070 render that many GF8 characters before. Amazing!
So today, I tried on some dforce hair and Daz hung on "rendering" and never went beyond that for an hour and I had to turn it off in Task Manager. I reloaded the scene and it did it again. I tried several more times. Finally, I deleted the hair and now it rendered, but this time, only with the CPU. (Same scene that rendered 12 simultaneously earlier with the GPU). So, I pressed "Shift, Control, Windows Key and B" in order to clear out the Vram from my card. The screen went black a couple of times like it's supposed to, but the next attempt to render the GF8 went straight to the CPU. So, I saved the scene and restarted Daz. But, it rendered with the CPU again. So, I rebooted my computer, loaded the scene, and this time it rendered with the GPU. Without closing the render or changing the view or anything else, I hit the render button again. This time it rendered with the CPU. I hit render a 3rd time - CPU again. I hit it a 4th time and this time it rendered with the GPU. 5th time - GPU, 6th time CPU, 7th time GPU. So now I have 7 renders open on my screen and 4 were created by the GPU and 3 were created by the CPU, but not consecutively.
If the renders were filling up the GPU vram, then it should have rendered with the GPU until it was filled and then fallen back to the CPU for the remaining renders, but it seems it randomly cleared the vram, occaisionally. Also, as I said earlier, this same scene rendered 12 copies really fast with the GPU the day before even though they were all open at the same time. It only started messing up after I tried the dforce hair. But, removing the hair didn't quite fix the issue. It's almost like the hair damaged the scene somehow and it is now permanently screwed up, which is really bad news if it's an important scene and not just my simple GF8 test scene. I tried recreating the exact same scene with the exact same model and saved that and that version works perfectly, but the scene that I'd tried the hair in seems to be permanently corrupted, and the renders happen randomly with either the GPU or the CPU, without any changes or reboots happening. And clearing the Vram sometimes seems to work and other times it doesn't do anything. Like I said, this is bad news if you can bring in something like hair to a scene that's taken you days to put together, only to have it corrupt the scene, and removing the asset doesn't fix the damage done.
Seems like a bug to me. I had noted that since installing 4.15, I'd been noticing the renders going to CPU seemingly randomly, and unjustifiably (not much in the scene), but this situation I've described is the first time it's been crystal clear that something is funky with the program. I've never seen Daz switch back and forth between the GPU and the CPU like that, on the same scene, one render after another, except when I've closed open renders and cleared the Vram. It's puzzling.
There is an BUG with Caustic sampler and the RTX3090 that can make the renderer drop to CPU depending on the scene.
i dont know if its daz or driver problem but its has been there for the last 3? beta updates.
it was never a problem with the old RTX2080
Try to turn off Caustic sampler.
also check the PerfCap reson in GPU-Z
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
if it drops or goes roller coaster this bug is active.