Denzel with a close crop...
rbottoms_4152cdabc9
Posts: 0
So how do you make or buy African-American hair?
Everything in the store is some version of straight hair, I want Denzel with a close crop haircut.
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You have already been given one recommendation in your other thread, for this hair http://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-black-hairstyles/ which can be used for both male and female
Thanks, very dramatic but I'm ex-military and I wouldn't wear hair like that if I could.
A nice Denzel would be helpful.
Look I appreciate the help, but a product that makes me have to do something extra to even make digital black people ought make you re-think about an entire population of not-white folks you don't support out of the box.
I'm a software developer and the phenomenon of engineers totally clueless about anyone who is not an engineer is just what this experience feels like. It's cool if you haven't sold a lot of your products to us before, the question is are you prepared to do something so you sell more of it in the future.
It's like Star Wars and George Lucas realizing something was missing in Episode IV. So maybe going forward you make Billy Dee Williams a member of the crew from the start and not require a special detour to a floating city to get him to join up?
About the only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is "Look At My Hair". It's expensive for the pro pack, and I don't know what comes with the free one (if anything). I just know it will work for Dinosaur down feathers, and beards (after asking).
http://www.daz3d.com/look-at-my-hair
The thread is here (many pages of Q&A)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14818/
As for your other opinion, I tend to try to not think about that at times (it can be difficult). The Daz3D store sells some stuff by Daz3D, and tones of stuff by other Product Artists. Like most other Artists, each one is good at many things, tho not ALL things. I guess that's why I have yet to find any figures from many nationalities. The PA would rather not butcher something by not making a product, rather then pissing people off by getting something wrong.
Well I try to take opportunities like this to not say hey white folks this is what you are doing wrong, rather you know you could sell a lot more of your basic package to other ethnicities if they came in the box.
I happen to think the worst Star Trek is better than the best Star Wars, but I still went to see the other two original Star Wars movies with more enthusiasm because Bill Dee came along for the ride.
What logical reason is there to let third parties make the extra cash when Denzel Washington or Michelle Yeoh or Demián Bichir can be part of the main cast from the beginning and not "also starring"?
The simple fact is that curly hair is hard to do, and short hair is hard to do - at least with the system used for most Poser and DAZ Studio hair. This has nothing to do with race or ethnic groups, it's simply that both require a lot of geometry compared to longer, straight or gently wavy styles. FibreMesh hair is only starting to be done, and tends to be demanding on the system and to look coarse, while there have been relatively few styles as presets for the two render curve hair systems (Look at My Hair and Garibaldi Express). We may hope that the situation will improve as more people learn the tools and find they produce viable products.
That one style that I linked before - in the product image its a round and fuller shape. It has shape dials though that can change it a bit. I will look at it tonight and see what styles I can make with what morph settings.
I'm pretty sure I accidentally made Mr. Washington's close cropped hair once when working on the figure you see in my profile image.
Now here is another product that will seem all wrong from the name and promo images:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=92349
But it has a dial to adjust length, and another to move the hairline. And you can get it down to being rather close cropped. I will try to get some screenshots of this one too, so you can see that before deciding - in case I'm wrong about how well it works. I think I can get it to be military-grade close cropped, but I'm not sure on that.
This comes in many colors, including dark brown, and might work:
http://www.daz3d.com/perseus-hair
An addon with more colors for it, including black:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/to-dye-for---perseus/91321/
Lastly this:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/36385/view/21/DAZ-Studio/M4-Short-Dreads-Hair
- is free and seemingly all wrong. But this image shows it in red, looking very different:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/true-colors-for-sickle-super-tee/89569/
I don't have it, so I don't know what dial changed it to that. I plan to grab it tonight.
Which is why I am willing to pay Daz instead of learning to do it myself.
Given the demographics of the USA, common sense suggests long term financial benefit to doing the hard work for digital artists by adding other ethnicities to the standard product. I am going go out on a limb to guess that a skin close version of Denzel Washington's hair is probably easier to do than Chris Evans' surfer do?
Anyway it has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is since I'm willing to spend the money for someone else's talent with the product. The United States of America looks different, is different than when Poser was first introduced.
If the product doesn't look like the country does now in movies, comics, television and other media by default your sales will go down instead of up. Instead of being able to go onto Facebook and rave about how Daz 4.6 is easy enough to use that it let me make digital people that look like me & my friends with just four hours working with it? I got gripe to nearly 100 folks about the hoops I had to go through to make it do so.
A company can't know everything, but what it can do is spot trends and see reality.
Hispanic, Asian, and black folks are unhappy that they aren't part of the standard software experience with Daz. Not enough to not use your products at all, but enough that money that could be going to the bottom line will go someplace else.
"Hard" wasn't just a comment on the PAs who make content - this is a long-standing complaint, that curly and short hairstyles are under-represented regardless of any considerations of ethnicity, and it's because hair like that is going to consume far more computer resources for the end user than a style that can be made with a few overlapping layers carrying a transparency map. I don't know what your surfer example looks like, but there's a fair chance that yes it would be possible to make it in a way that was substantially less demanding on the system showing it than the style you want. The situation does seem to be improving slightly, with the advent of new techniques.
Appreciate the insights.
It's two separate issues, the mechanics of using the product versus my contention that the demographics of who uses Daz have changed in the last 20 years. What you get when you buy the basic product should better reflect what's happened in the country itself over the last couple of decades. Good for them, good for a more diverse user base.
Jepe's Movie Men VII character pack over at Poser Addicts uses displacement maps to create afro hair styles on David 3.
This is the Beautiful Black Hair - with the 'short' dial set to 1:
http://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-black-hairstyles
This is SAV Lynn Hairsets:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=92349
With all kinds of dials tweaked to get to this point, which is as close to short as it would go. But it renders a LOT faster than the other one above.
The free short dreads product I mentioned this afternoon turns out to be a basic prop with no morphs - I have no idea why an image that has a very different looking hair claimed to be it, but they're different items.
Bless you, thanks.
The red hair is--I think--Boy Hair for V4 by 3Dream (also listed in the credits on that page).
It used to be a freebie but as far as I know it's no longer freely available...it seems to have been upgraded and replaced by a product called Master Skull Cap, which is sold at Renderosity.Never mind...it's still free at Arrow3D.The short dreads are listed there too because they're featured in another one of the promo images, not the first/main one.
I'm sorry, I've got to put in my 2 cents.
I can't believe someone is going to turn an art into a racial issue.
3D modeling is an art form and there are hundreds of different artists selling their items here on Daz. What they get inspired to make is totally up to them. Just as musicians or painters create what they enjoy and what inspires them.
On top of that, as was mentioned, it's not always just that someone doesn't want to make something, it's how feasible is it to make the product. And as was stated, certain hair types just aren't feasible at this time with the software available.
I mean sure, someone could probably make it, but then your computer would come to a grinding halt trying to load all the poly's, surfaces and vertexes. In the mean time those who have the talent must find work-a-rounds that look "close enough" to them.
*edit*
On the topic of short hair, I can easily see why there isn't a whole lot to chose from. You have pokethrough issues, especially with all different head shapes and sizes.
With longer hair, you have a thicker or more solid layer between your eyes and the model's scalp essentially hiding any pokethrough that happens. The shorter the hair, then thinner and more sparse the layer, thus pokethrough becomes more and more evident.
I just came back from the bank, and couldn't help but notice a cool twist on the dreadlocks. The over all style was a bound up pony tail like the Arisa cover pic, however it was done with dreadlocks.
Totally epic.
Personally I agree with the Original Poster - and I don't see him as inciteful, but rather critical of an obvious gap in the product lines.
It goes beyond hair - where you can make valid technical arguments. On first glance there is a real lack of diversity in the characters as well. You need to know what terms to type into search, and find assorted PA products here and on other 3D sites - to bridge the gap.
I don't think its appropriate to come back to that with something that reads like, 'how dare you ask for diversity'...
The original poster was angry in tone, but partly understandably so given the diversity is not so easy to find for a new user (I'm going by the number of posts he had, and which forum this is, rather than his registration date).
I choose and chose a more tactful way to respond to the original poster. I went out and found him the items he needed, because they are a tad 'out of the way'. Not so hidden as they were when I started, but definitely on or after the 'page 3' of the newspaper - because it has precisely been PAs that have done the work of bringing that diversity.
The "Black is Beautiful" threads do a LOT to solve this issue for African characters. We might need similar threads for Asian and Native Americans - I've had a lot of trouble finding those in the Genesis 1 and 2 range. RuntimeDNA has some amazing Native Americans for the Generation 4 line.
Black is Beautiful II thread:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/368/
We need threads like that for Native American and Asian figures, so I can find guys like this guy more easily, and hopefully there's something like him for a Genesis 2 figure:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/368/
this thread? (We doubled a tad, sorry)
I have purchased Wachiwi months ago, and several in favorites at other sites. I've done searches at the Daz3D store to say if I get V6 what other figures can I now use, and the search tends to be confused at times showing stuff not even for V6. So knowing in advance what to search for is incredibly difficult for a n00b like me.
(edit)
As for a Native American thread, I have yet to search for one, just the products. If one is started, I think it should include ALL natives to the Americas form Argentina to Alaska, not just north American tribes.
(pic from Wikipedia)
Wishlisted. Thanks. :)
Now to find a male.
I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like the "People of Earth" line of morphs here.
- The Artist has done them for Africa and Asia. So my search for good Asian figures is not as serious anymore (the Asian set is in my cart right now - while I ponder whether or not I'm about to buy the right things).
http://www.daz3d.com/people-of-earth-faces-of-africa-genesis-2-male-s
http://www.daz3d.com/people-of-earth-faces-of-africa-genesis-2-female-s
http://www.daz3d.com/people-of-earth-faces-of-asia-g2m
http://www.daz3d.com/people-of-earth-faces-of-asia
- That last one is for Genesis 2 female even though the link doesn't indicate. That artist does a really splendid job, and have saved me some major headaches with the 2 sets I already have.
Where is my render of the two you get with Wachiwi.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/663608/
(edit, there is a combo pack. Hair, outfits, figures, etc. I suggest you get that one)
As for th face morph packs, I still need the skin tone. probably the most difficult to nail.
Problem is, this isn't your typical "product line" it's a place where 3D artists can sell their work and is therefore up to the artist what they want to make and sell, just like a painter, musician, sculptor or any other artist.
If there's a lack of something on this site, it's simply because there isn't a 3D artist here yet who is either good enough or interested enough in that area to create something to fill that gap.
If I were any good at 3d modeling, I'd probably be putting out a lot of sci-fi items, because that's what inspires me and what genre I enjoy. I'm not going to start creating pirates or knights if there weren't any just because there aren't any.
Since I'm a 1/4 Quechua Indian, agreed very strongly. :D
Could the OP have been more tactful? Yes. But I don't think its appropriate anymore in modern society to make excuses for failures at diversity. Especially when solutions can be found. The OP's comment was perhaps more strongly worded that is fitted here, but it was on point. But the response to him that says its not ok to ask for that was not appropriate.
West Virgina is all my mother knew, as it was very keep it unknown for some reason. I've been thinking about the genetic test for some time now, and have yet to decide if it is even worth it. I have no name, and it is probably better that way, lol.
A recent genetic test in my family showed that we were wrong about being Cherokee... Our Cherokee ancestors came from Nigeria, which is slightly east of Oklahoma I gather, over a small pond or something - you can find some very unusual surprises. Especially when your family has been telling a story for a 100 years and even has paperwork to back it...
I never said he couldn't ask for something, but to come in here claiming racism because he couldn't find something to fit his needs is completely inappropriate. All I was trying to do was explain why he might not have been able to find what he was looking for.
As for the diversity thing, I've explained it already. You have a complete misconception on how this site works. If it were all simply Daz products and no one else, then you would be correct. But you guys are complaining about diversity to a group of artists and since when do artists make sure that every diverse culture is represented in their works?
depending if it was a microcondial or regular genetic marker test. your family's lineage may be from a woman that married/joined in to the tribe way back, it's not unheard of.
Is that Santiago for Michal3? Only for Poser???
I had a go with LAMH
is geometry export
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