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Iray Preview PC Reboot?

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,633
    edited November 2020

    try also unplugging peripherals

    I have had an external  drive or two that shut down or blackscreened my Computers

    a bad stick of RAM also did it

    less likely but physical damage can happen too

    my 980ti and a 760 does it on my Win7 too I cannot use a graphics card on that PC anymore, I suspect I damaged the motherboard accidentally losing my metal nozzle from my air compressor and finding it wedged between the card and the board

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    I looked at Seriously recommend testing disabling the Eco_power saving in OS & GPU as a test.  May work or not.  My experience shows the sudden power ramp up may cause a conflict.  And with Iray Preview and Iray Render working slightly differently, they may also handle ramp-up differently. 

    Do you have anyone you can borrow a PSU from for a day?  Just swap it out.  (lol just make sure you take camera pics before showing which cables went where.  There's quite a few and it's easier with digphotos to keep everything straight).

    There also is free benchmarking software that stresses machines.  It's not as long as a game session, but if it fails there, you will also have an idea.

    I checked my Windows System Power settings and I can't see any Eco_Power Saving option. At least I don't have one set. I have three plans: Balanced, High Performance and Power Saver. Mine is set to High Performance.

    For Mobo/CPU, When you are at HighPerformance, click change Plan Settings (thats for Win7 - so hopefully u are same or similar on Win10)

    Then see this image below where you access advanced settings.  In there you will for PCIe and think it was for CPU.

    Also image for Nvidia GPU power setting.

     

    marble said:

     

    Oh hey that is helpful.  Hair is very demanding and transparency display is likely coded a ceratin way.  Sounds like you are narrowing it down!

     However, I loaded another scene, tried the same things and it tripped out on hair load again. Anyway, it was worth a try and thanks for pointing the way to the power settings.

    When you loaded the next scene did you close out DS first, and start a new session?  I find that a new scene/new session gives me the most stable results.  Otherwise you may be stacking issues while troubleshooting.

    You might also be amused to hear.  I was running 2 sessions concurrently.  1 Latest Beta and a 4.12.0.86.  Happened to just finish an Iray render, and both were running Iray preview at same time.  LOL, my PC shut off.  Timewise it was probably as Iray Renber completed on other session in 4.14 beta and swicthed back to preview.  Did not like.  Shut down.

     

    I'm pretty sure it was a new session but wouldn't swear to it.

    However, just a couple of minutes ago it happened again - this time no IRay. I was playing with Filament - once again messing with opacity settings. 

    So now I'm pretty much convinced it is hardware but which hardware? My gut feel is still PSU so I might go out and buy one. I can always keep the old one in reserve. I've tried to monitor the voltages and the only one I can see that is changing noticeably is the 12v line. I notice when I start IRay Preview it drops to around 11.7v before returning to about 11.9v. I have no idea at what point the system would decide to reboot.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    Do you have an old Daz Studio version, like before this started to happen?   Would be interested to hear how that would work for you.

    Also, maybe post what you were doing with Filament opacity.  DreamLight's Instant grass gave me trouble in filament only, and that would likely have opacity  and/or transmap variables.  I could test what you were doing on my PC to see if I have trouble too.

    Have a spare PSU for troubleshooting my stuff.  It's handy the odd time.  But in your case, just replacing parts with new stuff can get expensive quick.  So still think something like a stress test would be good.

    Put in my search engine key words "PC best stress test benchmark"

    • One free program that was recommended by first site i checked was: https://www.jam-software.com/heavyload
    • The tool carries out complex calculations to simulate the heavy load on the processor, and employs 3D rendered graphics to simulate a high load on GPU. Also, users can allocate a specific amount of memory to see how the system performs with scarce memory

    Just suggesting this as a type of program you may want to use to test your system, and not necesarily this one.  You would have to dig through each test to see if it ramps up power needs like Iray in DAZ does.

  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 1,624

    I have this same issue but not with Iray preview.  I don't use preview because it was causing this so I stopped using it but recently Ive had issues with larger scenes causing a reboot on render. (I used to not put together big scenes but recently have have started doing larger ones)  I believe it maybe the PSU because it happens before the render even gets started and I can turn one card off and it will render!  I have tested with each card turned off in DS and it will render on either but if both are active it will reboot the computer.   On the thread I posted they recommended MSI Afterburner and I did the steps to restrict the power usage but it did not help in my case I still had a reboot with both cards running. I have put my computer through several stress tests and not had any issues show up... Ive also extensively tested temps, clean it out frequently, and have tested and replaced the ram to still have the issues.

    This is all still on the 4.12.1 Stable version. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited November 2020
    Daventaki said:

    I have this same issue but not with Iray preview.  I don't use preview because it was causing this so I stopped using it but recently Ive had issues with larger scenes causing a reboot on render. (I used to not put together big scenes but recently have have started doing larger ones)  I believe it maybe the PSU because it happens before the render even gets started and I can turn one card off and it will render!  I have tested with each card turned off in DS and it will render on either but if both are active it will reboot the computer.   On the thread I posted they recommended MSI Afterburner and I did the steps to restrict the power usage but it did not help in my case I still had a reboot with both cards running. I have put my computer through several stress tests and not had any issues show up... Ive also extensively tested temps, clean it out frequently, and have tested and replaced the ram to still have the issues.

    This is all still on the 4.12.1 Stable version. 

    That's good information, thanks. I am increasingly tempted to replace the PSU too. There is a Black Friday sale here in NZ this weekend so I'm going to be looking for a good deal. I watched a video on YouTube with a guy troubleshooting rebooting and it turned out to be the PSU. 

    [EDIT] I have removed the panels on my PC and given it a good clean (I do this from time to time anyway and there was remarkably little dust and fluff in there). I also rotated my 4 RAM sticks just in case Memtest missed something. Put it all together again and ... it still reboots. However, I am starting to notice that the initial reboot takes a while to occur so I can play in IRay Preview for about 5 minutes, swapping hair in and out and playing with opacity settings. Eventually it reboots though and, after that. the reboots happen earlier. I can only think that something warms up during the day and triggers progressively earlier.

    Post edited by marble on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited November 2020
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Do you have an old Daz Studio version, like before this started to happen?   Would be interested to hear how that would work for you.

    Also, maybe post what you were doing with Filament opacity.  DreamLight's Instant grass gave me trouble in filament only, and that would likely have opacity  and/or transmap variables.  I could test what you were doing on my PC to see if I have trouble too.

    Have a spare PSU for troubleshooting my stuff.  It's handy the odd time.  But in your case, just replacing parts with new stuff can get expensive quick.  So still think something like a stress test would be good.

    Put in my search engine key words "PC best stress test benchmark"

    • One free program that was recommended by first site i checked was: https://www.jam-software.com/heavyload
    • The tool carries out complex calculations to simulate the heavy load on the processor, and employs 3D rendered graphics to simulate a high load on GPU. Also, users can allocate a specific amount of memory to see how the system performs with scarce memory

    Just suggesting this as a type of program you may want to use to test your system, and not necesarily this one.  You would have to dig through each test to see if it ramps up power needs like Iray in DAZ does.

    I took your advice and I've just now downloaded a system stress test called OCCT which has a specific Power stress test which includes the GPU. Lo and Behold it failed immediately. So now I don't know for sure whether it is the PSU or the GPU but I am still inclined to think it is the PSU (maybe wishful thinking because I am still saving for a new GPU).

     

    OCCT-Screenshot-20201114-092707.png
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    Post edited by marble on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited November 2020

    OK ...

    So I lost my marbles a bit in the computer shop sale ...

    PC_PARTS_Cropped.jpg
    4608 x 2848 - 1M
    Post edited by marble on
  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 1,624

    LOL @marble.. looks like something I would do!

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    Haha.  No you didn't lose your Marbles.  As a dude that spends alot of time being creative you did what is rational.  Not upgrading would have been irrational, and be an act of losing your marbles.  lol

    See you got Aorus Mobo.  My mobo, GPU and monitor are all Aorus.  Can't say about quality today, but in the past Gigabytes top of the line has been very good to me despite inordinate hours using it.   

     

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Haha.  No you didn't lose your Marbles.  As a dude that spends alot of time being creative you did what is rational.  Not upgrading would have been irrational, and be an act of losing your marbles.  lol

    See you got Aorus Mobo.  My mobo, GPU and monitor are all Aorus.  Can't say about quality today, but in the past Gigabytes top of the line has been very good to me despite inordinate hours using it.   

     

    Yes, I'm afraid I used up my GPU savings so that will have to wait. But then I was going to wait anyway in the hope of NVidia releasing a 3070 with more VRAM. But my other hardware was getting a bit behind the times afte 5 years good service so I thought, to hell with it, spend the money. 
     

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Haha.  No you didn't lose your Marbles.  As a dude that spends alot of time being creative you did what is rational.  Not upgrading would have been irrational, and be an act of losing your marbles.  lol

    See you got Aorus Mobo.  My mobo, GPU and monitor are all Aorus.  Can't say about quality today, but in the past Gigabytes top of the line has been very good to me despite inordinate hours using it.   

     

    Yes, I'm afraid I used up my GPU savings so that will have to wait. But then I was going to wait anyway in the hope of NVidia releasing a 3070 with more VRAM. But my other hardware was getting a bit behind the times afte 5 years good service so I thought, to hell with it, spend the money. 
     

    Will you be ready in March-April next year for a new GPU?  Guessing things may be clearer then. 

    Big upgrade is on my plans too. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited November 2020
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Haha.  No you didn't lose your Marbles.  As a dude that spends alot of time being creative you did what is rational.  Not upgrading would have been irrational, and be an act of losing your marbles.  lol

    See you got Aorus Mobo.  My mobo, GPU and monitor are all Aorus.  Can't say about quality today, but in the past Gigabytes top of the line has been very good to me despite inordinate hours using it.   

     

    Yes, I'm afraid I used up my GPU savings so that will have to wait. But then I was going to wait anyway in the hope of NVidia releasing a 3070 with more VRAM. But my other hardware was getting a bit behind the times afte 5 years good service so I thought, to hell with it, spend the money. 
     

    Will you be ready in March-April next year for a new GPU?  Guessing things may be clearer then. 

    Big upgrade is on my plans too. 

    Hopefully. I can ask my son to help but I would rather scrimp a bit as this is only a hobby, not an essential expense.

    I've now discovered that I have to consolidate my drive space because this new motherboard is short on SSD connectors. So I'm off to buy a 1TB Nvme (M2) drive.

    Post edited by marble on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    Whenever I see your posts trying to figure out how to get more done with 3D, can tell you really enjoy and are passionate about this 3d art.  Most of us live only once.  Don't be too frugal wink

    Have family/relatives your gen and they also lean towards essential first vs play.  Always bug them about time to reprioritize.  angel

    Hate surprises like that.  But yayy! you have another upgrade!  And replacing hardrrives is a good idea so less chance of harddrive dying leaving you stranded .  Or that's how I see it. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Whenever I see your posts trying to figure out how to get more done with 3D, can tell you really enjoy and are passionate about this 3d art.  Most of us live only once.  Don't be too frugal wink

    Have family/relatives your gen and they also lean towards essential first vs play.  Always bug them about time to reprioritize.  angel

    Hate surprises like that.  But yayy! you have another upgrade!  And replacing hardrrives is a good idea so less chance of harddrive dying leaving you stranded .  Or that's how I see it. 

    Well, my almost complete rebuild is almost complete now. I'm actually typing this on the upgraded PC smiley

    I just need to format the new drive and then move a big chunk of my DAZ Studio library to the ultra-fast drive and create a legacy library for all the old (pre-genesis) content. I can tell you that I was so relieved when the thing booted properly at the first attempt. 

  • RobinsonRobinson Posts: 751

    These days graphics drivers are in user space, so a reboot is kind-of unusual.  They crash and Windows reloads them.  In my experience it's usually power-draw that causes a reboot like that, i.e. it's overloaded.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872
    edited November 2020
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Whenever I see your posts trying to figure out how to get more done with 3D, can tell you really enjoy and are passionate about this 3d art.  Most of us live only once.  Don't be too frugal wink

    Have family/relatives your gen and they also lean towards essential first vs play.  Always bug them about time to reprioritize.  angel

    Hate surprises like that.  But yayy! you have another upgrade!  And replacing hardrrives is a good idea so less chance of harddrive dying leaving you stranded .  Or that's how I see it. 

    Well, my almost complete rebuild is almost complete now. I'm actually typing this on the upgraded PC smiley

    Yaaayyy!!

    marble said:

    I just need to format the new drive and then move a big chunk of my DAZ Studio library to the ultra-fast drive and create a legacy library for all the old (pre-genesis) content. I can tell you that I was so relieved when the thing booted properly at the first attempt. 

    You're getting new puter set up faster than I would lol.   Relieved?  haha I am usually nerve-wracked every time worrying missed something.  Always great when you win first time! 

    Hope rendering is back arond the corner for you.

     

     

    Robinson said:

    In my experience it's usually power-draw that causes a reboot like that, i.e. it's overloaded.

    When I had issues when Iray Render was kicking in on heavier scenes, it wasn't so much as overloaded, but more the sudden need for power wasn't being met.  Which is why I turned off all my eco-settings for power.  Now rarely have a power-off on heavy scenes where RAM usage runs mid 30GB and more.  Have a 750W GOLD PSU w RTX2080Ti/64GB ram.   Though, i do have slight overclocks, not even moderate.  That may play a role too.

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Saxa -- SD said:
    marble said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Whenever I see your posts trying to figure out how to get more done with 3D, can tell you really enjoy and are passionate about this 3d art.  Most of us live only once.  Don't be too frugal wink

    Have family/relatives your gen and they also lean towards essential first vs play.  Always bug them about time to reprioritize.  angel

    Hate surprises like that.  But yayy! you have another upgrade!  And replacing hardrrives is a good idea so less chance of harddrive dying leaving you stranded .  Or that's how I see it. 

    Well, my almost complete rebuild is almost complete now. I'm actually typing this on the upgraded PC smiley

    Yaaayyy!!

    marble said:

    I just need to format the new drive and then move a big chunk of my DAZ Studio library to the ultra-fast drive and create a legacy library for all the old (pre-genesis) content. I can tell you that I was so relieved when the thing booted properly at the first attempt. 

    You're getting new puter set up faster than I would lol.   Relieved?  haha I am usually nerve-wracked every time worrying missed something.  Always great when you win first time! 

    Hope rendering is back arond the corner for you.

     

     

    Robinson said:

    In my experience it's usually power-draw that causes a reboot like that, i.e. it's overloaded.

    When I had issues when Iray Render was kicking in on heavier scenes, it wasn't so much as overloaded, but more the sudden need for power wasn't being met.  Which is why I turned off all my eco-settings for power.  Now rarely have a power-off on heavy scenes where RAM usage runs mid 30GB and more.  Have a 750W GOLD PSU w RTX2080Ti/64GB ram.   Though, i do have slight overclocks, not even moderate.  That may play a role too.

    I was dreading opening up DAZ Studio and trying a scene with IRay Previw turned on but I have just done so. I threw everything I could at it - hair would normally be the thing to trigger a reboot so I loaded two characters and four different hair products and no reboot. I can only hope that stability continues but the consensus seems to be some kind of power problem and I agree. I now have an 850W PSu but I now think my old one might be faulty.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    Well great to hear you are off to a happy start!  smiley  Happy Rendering!

    Still interesting that preview shut you off and render did not.  Would love to hear the difference in operation to potentially explain that.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Well great to hear you are off to a happy start!  smiley  Happy Rendering!

    Still interesting that preview shut you off and render did not.  Would love to hear the difference in operation to potentially explain that.

    Thanks. I didn't understand why a render didn't fail either but I finally became convinced it was hardware when I ran the stress test and it failed immediately. No DAZ Studio involved with that test.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 872

    LOL, yes it was great that stress test was so instantly definitive.  Not all tests are so quickly clear.

  • bvknottybvknotty Posts: 14

    I was directed here from another thread. I have been experiencing shut downs when rendering with Iray or sometimes just in preview mode with filament.

    I've had it to the repair shop, ran every command line, reformatted my whole system and bought a new video card. Still, as soon as the process started to render in the window, I would hear a small click

    the screen would go black, fans off and the system would require a power down with the switch on the power supply in back. Quite often, the mouse would not power on when restarting, and I had to pull and plug it back in. I also found corrupted C++ files several times.

     

    I tried OCCT suggested above and it made it to the test where both the cpu and gpu are under load and suddenly there was that instant black out. Hopefully I was right in ordering a 700 watt ps to replace my 8 year old 500w. Video card is new and everything from Poser to Doom runs great so I hope this fixes the problem, I've been feeling like my computer is possesed.

     

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    bvknotty said:

    I was directed here from another thread. I have been experiencing shut downs when rendering with Iray or sometimes just in preview mode with filament.

    I've had it to the repair shop, ran every command line, reformatted my whole system and bought a new video card. Still, as soon as the process started to render in the window, I would hear a small click

    the screen would go black, fans off and the system would require a power down with the switch on the power supply in back. Quite often, the mouse would not power on when restarting, and I had to pull and plug it back in. I also found corrupted C++ files several times.

     

    I tried OCCT suggested above and it made it to the test where both the cpu and gpu are under load and suddenly there was that instant black out. Hopefully I was right in ordering a 700 watt ps to replace my 8 year old 500w. Video card is new and everything from Poser to Doom runs great so I hope this fixes the problem, I've been feeling like my computer is possesed.

     

    Looks almost identical symptoms to mine. I also heard that small click that you mention. I didn't have to press the power button because it restarted automatically but maybe that's a Bios thing. All I can say is that I think it was the PSU and I have not had the problem since I upgraded my hardware but, as you can see, I upgraded more than just the PSU. Having said that, my son has installed my old motherboard, CPU and RAM and he is not having any problems (he plays games on his PC). He did not take my old PSU (as it was what I suspected was faulty).

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,253

    I will crash to the desktop if I go from wireframe preview to iray on larger scenes, on many of those same scenes if I go from textured to Iray I don't. I thought it might be drivers but I have played games and maxed out the settings on many of the and encountered nothing notable with them. 

  • Siciliano1969Siciliano1969 Posts: 433

    Same here.....  I had 2 sound card drivers...  NVidia and Realtek.  Once I disabled the NVidia driver it seemed to help.  So far no shutdowns.  We shall see.  

  • bvknottybvknotty Posts: 14
    edited December 2020

    Seems the new power supply did the trick (knock on wood).

    Post edited by bvknotty on
  • rpmcnee_2d776ca6f3rpmcnee_2d776ca6f3 Posts: 3

    4.14.08 crashes on startup after loading the interface. sometimes immediately, sometimes within 10 seconds. 

    even if the program is started and closed immediately, my computer turns off. 

    this appears to be an nvidia driver issue as far as i can tell. daz 4.14 crashed so i uninstalled and reinstalled 4.11 which 

    did not crash. now it crashed too...so i uninstalled nvidia drivers and downloaded the current developer drivers 

    (460.89-desktop-win10-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql.exe) instead of the game ready ones. 

    i uninstalled the usbc and audio drivers and gforce experience. still daz 4.11 turns off my computer (i can hear the fans speeding up

    in my case). on reboot i noticed that the display tabs for daz were on nvidia so i quickly changed to something else -> no crash. 

    i clicked on another tab which also used nvidia iray and it crashed within a couple of seconds again. another reboot and quickly changed

    all tabs to something other than iray and no crashing.

    my system: rtx2060, ryzen 3900x, 40GB ram. nvidia driver 27.21.14.5751

    avast antivirus. no other programs running.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,931

    rpmcnee_2d776ca6f3 said:

    4.14.08 crashes on startup after loading the interface. sometimes immediately, sometimes within 10 seconds. 

    even if the program is started and closed immediately, my computer turns off. 

    this appears to be an nvidia driver issue as far as i can tell. daz 4.14 crashed so i uninstalled and reinstalled 4.11 which 

    did not crash. now it crashed too...so i uninstalled nvidia drivers and downloaded the current developer drivers 

    (460.89-desktop-win10-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql.exe) instead of the game ready ones. 

    i uninstalled the usbc and audio drivers and gforce experience. still daz 4.11 turns off my computer (i can hear the fans speeding up

    in my case). on reboot i noticed that the display tabs for daz were on nvidia so i quickly changed to something else -> no crash. 

    i clicked on another tab which also used nvidia iray and it crashed within a couple of seconds again. another reboot and quickly changed

    all tabs to something other than iray and no crashing.

    my system: rtx2060, ryzen 3900x, 40GB ram. nvidia driver 27.21.14.5751

    avast antivirus. no other programs running.

    That does sound like a hardware issue more than a driver issue.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,149
    edited December 2020

    I tried out that new driver 460.89. I was getting a CTD(crash to desktop) with Studio and several games wouldn't run correctly either.

    I did a clean install of the "older" 457.30 driver and everything Studio and game related is now working again.

     

    ETA:I just looked at my downloaded drivers.The problematic driver was version 460.79.I just downloaded and installed 460.89.It's working just fine.Sorry about the confusion :)

    Post edited by IceCrMn on
  • grumly6grumly6 Posts: 0

    I have the same problem : when I activate the iray preview my PC stopped some minutes later. No overheating at all and the pc work well in 3D rendering durint seveall hours on other apps or on DAZ with Octane.

    I have a RTX3090, 64Go RAM and a 1200Watt power supply and no other stress test are making the pc fail... so I assume it's DAZ.

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