AI is going to be our biggest game changer

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  • Richard Haseltine said:

    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    Stable Diffusion img2img batch render used in a Nicki Minaj  video 

    Wow. People today still fervently denying the dizzying rate of progress are going to be so embarrassed bytheir own comments in a year or two. Literally all it's going to take now is some grad student living off Top Ramen to figure out how to guarantee coherency across frames.

    Granted it's better than they used to be, but I still find it unwatchable for more than a few seconds.

    Sure, yes, I agree. But let's talk again a year from now.

     

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,274

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    Stable Diffusion img2img batch render used in a Nicki Minaj  video 

    That looks like autotune sounds. There hasn't been a decent sounding autotune song since Cher's Believe.

  • LeatherGryphon said:

    Heed the lesson of the Krell 

    "I'm sooo confused..., I'm beginning to grasp the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything.  I even have an inkling as to who and what I am.  Aummm...  But what I don't understand is who the heck are you and why are you trampling my roses?" 
    ----
    It has been noted that he had worked as a programmer way back in the days when the * was a return for an unknown quanity or something like that (details are vague that was back before Abe designed the first computer)... it's ascii (or mayb ebcdic) code is 42. 

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,659
    edited March 2023

    Talking about ramen...

    image

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  • alan bard newcomer said:

    It has been noted that he had worked as a programmer way back in the days when the * was a return for an unknown quanity or something like that (details are vague that was back before Abe designed the first computer)... it's ascii (or mayb ebcdic) code is 42. 

    Oh my god, how could I never have realized that?!

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,834

    ..and then there is this:

  • generalgameplayinggeneralgameplaying Posts: 517
    edited March 2023

    I'll try to be very short, but not too concise here:

    1. AI learns. NO it doesn't. It's dead fish in the water. It's "PRE-TRAINED" like ChatGPT. Anything else is misinformation. The most you could say is "it has learned [from...] somehow".

    2. Creativity / new. The parrot analogy is more correct. It's partly, based on prompt, creating "new stuff", but not really. It remains to be encyclopedic parrots. That's the tech part. Compare ChatGPT (and the likes) being a flat area in 3d, you grab it slightly and so on and it looks like a pyramid for a moment, but it swings back directly afterwards. But creativity is a torus, at least.

    [Edit: joke with topology: one dimension higher, spinning in time, and if you touch it, it'll immediately attempt to disguise itself as a flat 3d-area...]

     

    I won't be sorry for this statement, a couple of years from here, because what we now have is this, and if there will be something better, that even doesn't need to kill people to exist, so be it.

    Post edited by generalgameplaying on
  • csaacsaa Posts: 824

    wolf359 said:

    ..and then there is this:

    wolf359,

    Thank you for sharing that!

    I lost count of the number of times he said "storytelling" and "storyteller" in that video. How many of us will make the cut? For some, the gulf between the left side and the right side of the brain is vast. There's already so much navel-gazing, second-guessing, anxiety and faux-morality surrounding the word 'ARTIST', what more about being a ... (whisper) storyteller. Or maybe most people will just be happy creating still images. There's safety in the familiar.

    I do give him credit for throwing down the gauntlet: in the face of changing technology, how do 3D artists reivent themselves? It's probably safe to say folks will be spendng less time 3D modeling in front of the computer and more behind a camera, out in the real world, taking videos. Come to think of it, that doesn't sound bad at all.

    Cheers!

     

      

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,483

    I find group chat videos very hard to listen to in general

    but I will try to watch this one later or read the transcript to be fair and hear all angles on the subject

     

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,483

    OK this stood out to me

    you know behind the camera and I just feel like a lot of minorities in general are are fighting for our

    20:58

    place to be seen in the industry and now with gender technology like this we're starting to see you know um photography

    21:05

    uh fashion shoots um and portraiture of minorities that

    21:11

    aren't even there or aren't even real you know I've seen um fashion shoots of like African models

    21:16

    where there were no African models you know and you know I've seen also uh like recently a photographer was outed as

    21:22

    using AI imagery and like none of their photos were real but they had pictures of minorities in you know their settings

    21:29

    and this is dangerous because now we are viewing minorities through a uh a

    21:36

    non-minority lens and as we know all of these AI imagery are are drawing from data that's already

    I am pretty certain they are referring to Shudu_Gram

    a DAZ3D Genesis figure

  • MinamMinam Posts: 55

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

     

    Until I get around to submitting a query to DAZ about use of 2D renders in AI, I am using my photographs and video footage converted to images

    hence posting here not the mixing my art with ai thread blush

    was too depressed today as a year since Lynx died



     

    Sorry for your loss. 

  • MinamMinam Posts: 55

    Not sure how to share youtube Vids, but this explains the legal. 
    https://youtu.be/gv9cdTh8cUo

  • MinamMinam Posts: 55


    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    OK this stood out to me

    you know behind the camera and I just feel like a lot of minorities in general are are fighting for our

    20:58

    place to be seen in the industry and now with gender technology like this we're starting to see you know um photography

    21:05

    uh fashion shoots um and portraiture of minorities that

    21:11

    aren't even there or aren't even real you know I've seen um fashion shoots of like African models

    21:16

    where there were no African models you know and you know I've seen also uh like recently a photographer was outed as

    21:22

    using AI imagery and like none of their photos were real but they had pictures of minorities in you know their settings

    21:29

    and this is dangerous because now we are viewing minorities through a uh a

    21:36

    non-minority lens and as we know all of these AI imagery are are drawing from data that's already

    I am pretty certain they are referring to Shudu_Gram

    a DAZ3D Genesis figure
     

    That's deep. 

  • MinamMinam Posts: 55
    edited March 2023

    <iframe width="711" height="400" src=" title="GET PERFECT HANDS With MULTI-CONTROLNET &amp; 3D BLENDER! This Is INSANE!" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Post edited by Minam on
  • MinamMinam Posts: 55
    I find it funny, that a stick figure with hands and feet can create beautiful renders now.
  • For stills in the next 2 weeks Midjourney V5 will be released and the realism is off the chain.  Hands are finally beginning to look like real hands.  

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,483

    well I seem to have broken my local installation of Stable Diffusion

    so might be going back to doing DAZ iray renders

    (I was doing renders on my other PC but mostly Carrara and Filament)

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,518

    Midjourney V5 sounds promising. 

     

    @WendyLuvsCatz I assume that if you don't have a GPU, Stable Diffusion won't install?

    I'd love to run Stable Diffusion locally, but it's just not installing AT.ALL *weary groan*

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,483

    N-RArts said:

    Midjourney V5 sounds promising. 

     

    @WendyLuvsCatz I assume that if you don't have a GPU, Stable Diffusion won't install?

    I'd love to run Stable Diffusion locally, but it's just not installing AT.ALL *weary groan*

    yeah doubt you can run it locally

    there are some CPU based builds but I don't know much about it and they would be awfully slow and resource heavy

     am actually having issues myself right now with my install I am trying to fix 

  • Siciliano1969Siciliano1969 Posts: 433
    edited March 2023

    Here is my 1972 airport shot.....problem is she has something like a cellphone LOL  Midjourney V4

     

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  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    for the fellas saying "AI/SD is just a bunch of images and do a collage of your prompt",

    how you explain this variation of my Daz Render considering nobody has the same character, hair, environment, light setup, skin material as a full product?

    if your conclusion is still right then who collected my local images to internet and train in another PC to craete a safetensor file and that way recreate my original render to an AI output?

     

     

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    If you know how to use them, DAZ and Stable Diffusion are a marriage made in heaven.

  • generalgameplayinggeneralgameplaying Posts: 517
    edited March 2023

    Zilvergrafix said:

    for the fellas saying "AI/SD is just a bunch of images and do a collage of your prompt",

    how you explain this variation of my Daz Render considering nobody has the same character, hair, environment, light setup, skin material as a full product?

    if your conclusion is still right then who collected my local images to internet and train in another PC to craete a safetensor file and that way recreate my original render to an AI output?

    And where do faces or watermarks come from?

    I just pressed ctrl-w by accident, so you get the very short version.

    These generative systems clearly are encyclopedic, given that they expressly train to reproduce source images as close as possible. Due to specifics with tagging and the language model, and some synthesis/abstraction happening, it may not be possible to prompt-engineer every source image to display "as close as then possible", but for some elements and sometimes full images, it actually works. And this is the bigger points:

    1) Training on images against the consent of the rights holders. 

    2) 1) for generating images competing with the images trained on. (Clarification: with a massively scaling computer system and commercial use for basic stakes.)

    3) The bad cases for rights holders (and in my view: for society) are the crucial point, given the properties and abilities of these kinds of systems. You may always find a good case for you, but that says nothing about the whole thing.

     

    I'm not judging "ai" itself nor people using "ai" in general. I'm not part of that "discussion".

    Post edited by generalgameplaying on
  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    generalgameplaying said:

    Zilvergrafix said:

    for the fellas saying "AI/SD is just a bunch of images and do a collage of your prompt",

    how you explain this variation of my Daz Render considering nobody has the same character, hair, environment, light setup, skin material as a full product?

    if your conclusion is still right then who collected my local images to internet and train in another PC to craete a safetensor file and that way recreate my original render to an AI output?

    And where do faces or watermarks come from?

    I just pressed ctrl-w by accident, so you get the very short version.

    These generative systems clearly are encyclopedic, given that they expressly train to reproduce source images as close as possible. Due to specifics with tagging and the language model, and some synthesis/abstraction happening, it may not be possible to prompt-engineer every source image to display "as close as then possible", but for some elements and sometimes full images, it actually works. And this is the bigger points:

    1) Training on images against the consent of the rights holders. 

    2) 1) for generating images competing with the images trained on. (Clarification: with a massively scaling computer system and commercial use for basic stakes.)

    3) The bad cases for rights holders (and in my view: for society) are the crucial point, given the properties and abilities of these kinds of systems. You may always find a good case for you, but that says nothing about the whole thing.

     

    I'm not judging "ai" itself nor people using "ai" in general. I'm not part of that "discussion".

     

    can't remember  if I  quote you in first place about my sentence, because in the page 38 you are not the user who told that, but thanks for your pov yescool

  • PixelSploitingPixelSploiting Posts: 898
    edited March 2023

    generalgameplaying said:

     

    And where do faces or watermarks come from?

     

     Because it was learning from large sample of images containing watermarks, therefore it "assumed" that having something like a watermark is legit part of the image.

     

     

     

    It really isn't unlike fan artists learning by copying their favorite game or comic art. Without any deeper understanding how to draw they often don't realize that they are also copying shortcuts and often errors common in comic books.

    Which is why art teachers almost always say to not do tracing because you can pick a lot of bad habits this way. Looks like the machine learning runs into exactly same problem.

     

    It's both amusing and fascinating to see a machine making mistakes similar to what a human would do.

    Post edited by PixelSploiting on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,822

    The damaged but still visible watermark on AI generated art  is simply clear and verifiable evidence of the copyright infringement of the artists source material.

  • FirstBastion said:

    The damaged but still visible watermark on AI generated art  is simply clear and verifiable evidence of the copyright infringement of the artists source material.

     

    Well, if it lacks ability to evaluate things and repeat brainlessly as the machine does, it is. But it's happening because when it tries to copy style of an "artist X" unlike a human copyist it can't realize that the watermark is not a part of the style.

    If you had a human copycat and somehow they could not realize that the artist sign is not part of the style they'd run into the same problem. Except of course a human can realize this. 

  • generalgameplayinggeneralgameplaying Posts: 517
    edited March 2023

    Indeed, but even without watermarks popping up, the technique is "this" kind of thing. Not meaning blunt collage.

    What i'm saying is just, that it's not just "like" or "looks as if" [...% of the time...], but that it's base is encyclopedic by nature, and that it also is "like copying", even if was like [something that humans have or do] at the same time. If you add filters to remove watermarks and correct hands, say you'd be cheating, because it's part of a system, but not of "the brains", the problem would still be the same. It's not just a legal fun question for me. If you then start adding special filters to ensure it looks different, you would have a different beast, in a way, because the system would then "have a style" (in a way), and that wouldn't go well with the "do everything [cheap]" approach. The kind of system is bound by it's nature in multiple ways. Maybe, maybe the next version will be real-time and true intelligence, and it'll just do what it wants, and no two prompts will ever result in the same thing [careful: can be reached without any "intelligence"]... assume, a system that doesn't do what it wants in a deliberate fashion, likely isn't using much of intelligence, isn't being creative, for simplistic criteria.

    Even without that i would still opt for any "encyclopedic-like" "super capable" and potentially "super scaling" system, not to train on content without the explicit consent of rights holders. Damage to society will be a preset. Not because we couldn't have a society with "free training", but because the transition towards there is no fun game to have.

    @Zilvergrafix Not unlikely! Thank you for the opportunity to throw in these points at random, then.

    Post edited by generalgameplaying on
  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,518

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    N-RArts said:

    Midjourney V5 sounds promising. 

     

    @WendyLuvsCatz I assume that if you don't have a GPU, Stable Diffusion won't install?

    I'd love to run Stable Diffusion locally, but it's just not installing AT.ALL *weary groan*

    yeah doubt you can run it locally

    there are some CPU based builds but I don't know much about it and they would be awfully slow and resource heavy

     am actually having issues myself right now with my install I am trying to fix 

    I haven't found any results that stood out on a search engine about running SD on a CPU.

    HOWEVER, I now have a working version of SD on my PC! ^^ -  Although I had to edit the executable file in notepad (I know it's not an .exe file, but it's the one you use to start it up). But, I've only got to try it once (I didn't get a good result either). But yeah, it is resource heavy (although I wonder if it's heavier than rendering a very detailed scene in Daz). Plus, I'm not a big fan of using cmd (although using it makes me feel more smart than I actually am when it comes to computers ^^' ).

    I've now got a lot to catch up on (i.e. learning about models and ai terms).

    I hope you can get yours up and running again as soon as possible :)

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,483

    I cannot get my Visions of Chaos version of Automatic 1111 Webui to run

    I managed once bypassing VOC and using the bat file instead but now that throws an error and typing what it says to do in CMD. throws an invalid syntax error 

    I have no knowledge of such codey things so just at a loss, I can still use the GUI version 

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