ZDG random Daz Studio discoveries and questions.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    ok, this morning I have something I must do. Something that should be rather interesting involving a shark for a friend.  So, it looks like the only sharks in the daz store are just old enough that I'm not holding any bets on them working at all in Daz Studio 4.x, lol.

    So I need to clean off the slate a bit and fire up some old island scenes I have not visited in a very long time. And I need to figure out how to make some cool looking text in GIMP as well.

    I wunder if that would work with a vaper instead of a pipe, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    OK, first up, the Daz Shark.  I'm not sure about you, however, I've never seen a shark with hexagon shaped eyes before, lol.

    And adding sub-D to the model that was not there by default just causes all kinds of mesh overlapping issues. So I hope the AM shark is a lot better...

    , if I can find it, lol.

    By the way, now I know why Daz3D has so many weapons available, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    And I think we have a winner, the AM shark, If you can find it, lol.

    I just need to do some text now.

    And I don't think solid color text will cut it. I just have no clue how to do more stylish text in either program.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Neat shark =D

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    yea, AM makes some really good stuff.

    Even stuff going back to the days of randomly renamed content folders.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Ever load new figures into a scene for the first time, and have doubts of whether or not you accidental dialed in the same figure.  (what one was Kendra again? lol) It's what daz wanted I guess, lol.

    In any case, I thought I had just gone too far with the outfit on the elf in the former tryout of the outfit, tho I guess some things are just extremely difficult to smooth over with the geometry, lol. The Sherry hair looks very nice, and I very much appreciate the '3dl' in the mat names for them.

    To be fair, there are differences between them, just not as pronounced as the promos make them look.

    Ella's facial features are not as harsh as in her promos, and Kendra' face is not as soft as it appears in her promos. I almost doubt what was used for the promos was the same thing that was sent out via DIM, as much as I know I should not entertain such thoughts. It may just be a trick of the lights after all. Time for some kit-bashing .

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    OK, a month back I put some stuff on my GT730 to try to help the thermals a bit.

    One of the heatsinks came with some tape on it that I found out after the fact is not exactly made to be thermally conductive, and I started to have some doubts.

    The one thing I did not give a lot of thought to was how well the non-thermal tape would keep it's stick-to-itiveness when exposed to heat.

    So, at this point, I'm a tad discouraged to put it lightly. I had picked up a bunch of sticky-heatsinks to put on the EVGA GTX1050Ti negligent VRM cooling solution, only to not be sure if the tape is more blanket than chiller and having doubts that it has the gumption to hang in there.

    Apparently, the only cards with reasonable cooling solutions, are too hot and pull to much power for what I'm looking for. It is no better today than it was back when the 9800GTX cards launched. It's a watt density thermal game I have not, and will not get involved with.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Something to take my mind off of the "Hot Mess", lol.

    That is just for the dimensions of what is going into the 'idea' project. A simple 6.5 inch speaker, to start with.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    AM is da boss when it comes to animals.

    And speakers, what's for the magnets? =)

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    But We remembered G3F and all the broken outfits and the struggles that were with them in the Studio.  Ah, oh, never mind, Google is blind to the going's on today I guess. lol.

    I have just poured "Genesis 8 Female" into this tattered runtime, and am about to subject myself to,  on second thought, no. Last time round there was a mob of forum users demanding content before PAs even had the final G3F shape to work from, and the flood of junk has yet to be fixed almost two years later.

    I'm going to look at a cute fuzzy critter that has been patiently waiting in the 'Does it work' queue here. I totally agree that AM does incredible work, and I have been negligent in looking at stuff in Daz Studio the past two weeks(Between Gamers Nexus stuff, Sharkims game streams, and real life stuff). Besides, I'm broke till the third, so I have no way to look at much else till then.

    Oh, that was just the random colors chosen by hex, I have no idea what they use for magnets in modern speakers, lol.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    I thankfully don't have the time to play with anything now, even free. LOL

    Neodymium (sp?) magnets are "the" magnets, I think. Not that I have access to any fancy speakers like those.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Fancy, lol. Those were the cheapest 6.5-inch things I could find on Amazon for my Jeep, lol.  Also just small enough to make a sealed (flat response) box for under my desk.

    Not quite a Scrat, tho good enough for my needs and looks just as good. Posting is a bit tedious, tho I suspect with time I may figure out ho easiest to get around that.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Well, I just found out about another special occasion today. So I had a bit of inspiration for a quick render, lol.

    now, I want to fuss around some more, tho I doubt I can find a good looking flame prop for 3delight.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Squee squirrel!!

    The only speakers I have are those built into my laptop =) I have to share the room, so I only invest in headphones.

    DM's gothic interior sets have candles that often have nice flame textures.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    yea, I like the cute squirrel (belka). It's just a tad tedious to pose the fingers and some other stuff without a full set of pose dials. I haven't had a chance to read the LAMH thread to see what is of that, been a tad busy.

    I thought the render would be an easy one, tho without a good Ln2 fog surface shader, and I had to completely remodel the old comp into a true set of mesh parts.

    I have, A Lot, of work to do still, tho the new 'CRAY Gen' model is far better then the billion stacked cubes the older one was.

    random tid-bit. I've been doing the Cato the elder griping about needing a minimum of three-hundred-and-twenty GigaFLOPS in a PC CPU just for AoA shaders on HD mesh for over three years now. Apparently from Paul's diner chat about the un-planed upper tear i9 skews, the top chip will finally have the needed FLOPS to work with CG stuff made over three years ago. I still sort of feel that the top end i9-7980XE is just a bit of intel rubbing salt in the wound (we could have done it, and chose to keep y'all deprived this entire time).

     

     

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Well, I know it is a difficult pill to swallow that a four core processor that clocks in at under four gigahertz can outperform an eight-core processor that runs stock at four gigahertz, there are a few benchmarks that prove it can. However in this world there really is a need for a hell of a lot more than a simple four core processor designed for the fastest gaming frame times on the planet. There are tasks where a lot more compute power is needed then what many have budgets to spend on a processor and/or graphics card.

    At this point in time, there are now options that look a lot more attractive then the willfully inadequate FX8350/8370 or the pure gaming champ 7700k. If you are a gamer and that is all you do, then just get a 7700k and be happy with life, And what are you doing here, lol. (Welcome to a world far more vast than just gaming by the way.)  . As for the rest of us that routinely have our graphics cards and processors slammed to its knees so hard that there is nothing left for something as simple as mp3 music that does not skip and stutter.

    I feel that of all sites, a particular gaming review site may have some really good info for us non-gamers about all the new processors that are coming out this year. Also, some one commented on the 7900x vid with a very good hint of the options for Blender cycles and 3delight. As for Iray, a 700usd graphics card paired with a 300usd processor will get you far better results then rendering Iray on the thousand dollar part, no contest there between the 1900x vs a 1080Ti, lol. As for a processor for Blender cycles and 3delight, I think Steve nailed it in the closing statements of this vid. If you do not pay for the computer at your work desk, let the company write it off in taxes, otherwise, the AMD R7 chips offer a very good bang for the buck option for the rest of us that must get gear out of our own pockets.

    Core i9-7900X Review: Fact-Checking Intel (updated Blender render chart, and cool stuff)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRgJ79TcCO0

    There are caveats to the X299 lineup that I think Paul covered perfectly in this vid. In short, unless you're getting an upper end thousand dollar i9 or up processor, you will be dealing with stuff on the motherboard being limited or not working at all. It is a platform that I would consider with extreme scrutiny at best.  And if you plan on running a second dedicated CUDA compute card (or more), then I would only go with the 44-lane i9's, or any thing other then x299.

    What does a $250 7640X CPU do to a $490 X299 Motherboard?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3OU_33trQ&t=0s

    And there was that other idea. for the cost of a i9, you could get a few more affordable processors and possibly build a cluster for 3delight or blender cycles. I have a few doubts tho about just how well that would work compared to other options. The price and performance of a processor is not the only cost of upgrading or building a workstation, and for many a motherboard and memory will also be required for the new processor at a minimum. A 3delight render cluster is an interesting idea, however to the best of my knowledge it is cumbersome at best to interface Daz Studio with the standalone 3delight client, and I have no clue if it would function at all in Daz Studio for spot-renders (or if it would help AoA's face-plant times at all, if it does work).

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Ooh, a server room =)

    I wonder if anyone ever would be able to design a laptop with a cooling system that would support that sort of CPUs.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Yea, I sort of like the big computers.

    The problem with cooling such things in laptops, is a fundamental law of energy conservation that many forget about, lol. The hundreds of watts consumed by modern CPU and GPU must go somewhere, lol.  It's why I'm still being persistent of no more than 55 watts per PCI slot for graphics cards, otherwise the temps will be astronomical, and the case fans will need to keep up or the GPU/VRM dies.  Now if your willing to do with less than top-end speed demons, a long battery life laptop that does not sound like a J79 is quite feasible.

    Also, yesterday, I did a crude google search to see what just the CPU prices were for some of the processors on the GN Blender render chart (other good charts there). I know that 'gaming' is the thing these days, however, from what I'm into, a thousand dollar 6900k is just stupid when a 550 USD R7 1800x outperforms it in rendering.

    Preliminary Workstation upgrade idealist that I am contemplating (Not etched in stone yet).

    AMD R7 1700x (Threadripper may be an option to consider with a different motherboard)

    Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 (Solid VRM, and Buildzoid approved external BCLK gen)

    4GB Zotac GT730 Zone Edition (display card. *1)

    8GB MSI GTX 1070 AERO ITX (Iray compute card)

    *1, No 4GB GT1030 cards available, thus the GT1030 is a No-Go. Other cards have bad cooler fin designs or dissipate too much TDP for a display output card.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Just a bit of a fun render with FW Sandi. 'Good Steveism'.

    Having seen the Generation and the Genome, ...

    I'm not sure I want to know what the Genus and Genomic are.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Well, looks like the pathetic GTX1050Ti is NOT going to cut it for much more, lol.

    One other thing that the graphs do not show, is that the instant Iray starts rendering the scene, everything else that uses the GPU stops dead in its tracks. So something as simple as watching YT vids while you wait for a render to complete is impossible. Something about the GPU driver is incapable of multitasking even with CPU and GPU power left over to do stuff.  Back to doing 'stuff'

    and thank you Nvidia for making sure I must ditch almost everything in a scene just to make things fit entirely in the graphics card.  The billion dollar Q, do I have enough GPU memory left after 3221MB of 4096MB for shoes and leggings, hmmm...  Yep, that's it, no earrings necklaces or other stuff. I'm out of memory, again.

    One figure, no environment at all, and I'm out of memory. this is like 32bit all over again. How the hell can Iray be so popular with this kind of blatant limitation.  It's Iray the cool new kid on the block, and no matter how bad the new kid is the new kid is still cool I guess.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    One figure, no environment at all, and I'm out of memory. this is like 32bit all over again. How the hell can Iray be so popular with this kind of blatant limitation.  It's Iray the cool new kid on the block, and no matter how bad the new kid is the new kid is still cool I guess.

    Bounce a check, lie a bit, do without... (c) Metal Church

    I know people who render in Iray on CPU. They get Vue or old LuxRender timeframes - like, 8 hour renders. No memory limitations that way, though.

    I don't understand it, but most people don't understand me, so it's kinda reciprocal.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    The problem with cooling such things in laptops, is a fundamental law of energy conservation that many forget about, lol. The hundreds of watts consumed by modern CPU and GPU must go somewhere, lol.
     

    If you can afford even more watts, you can design some sort of an active cooling system. It's going to be bulky, which definitely defeats the trend that laptops should be as portable as possible and with max battery life, but hey, a fox can dream, right? It seems less depressing than dreaming of a private room.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    I've been thinking about light weight portable stuff. The other half of the problem is the demands of software today. Back in 2008, I got buy fine with two cores at 2GHz and only 2GB of memory for a lot of stuff. That same computer today can't even play a youtube vid. Up till last year, consumer CPUs have not ventured past four threads and software has exploded in requirements during that stagnation.

    So, it is not just a matter of making a low watt computer that will last a long time on a modestly sized battery, cuz that would be insufficient for even browsing most websites today with modern software.

    And I don't think the biggest culprits of inefficient software care at all to make it run better on lower end computers anyway. It's almost like the world requires you to have one computer for each thing you do when you are attempting to multitask, regardless of how much Check-bouncing lying and doing without you do, lol.

    I have two things I want to work on before I get back to that tablet-pc by the way. I have a few internal space things to work out with it anyway. (Do not get the PNY USB sticks, they are junk.)

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    This will take a bit to get coherent, tho, in short, I wanted to keep the thing from throttling and lower its temps. The best I was able to do with the PNY USB stick was get the USB metal shell down to burn your lap coffee temps, and that only raised the bandwidth from 4.8MB/s all the time, to a start closer to 6MB/s that drops down to 4.8MB/s after a few seconds of reading from the thing.

    I suspect the problem is that the all-in-one plug-chip is never going to make good thermal contact with the metal shell of the plug, and there is no other way to cool the chip. It's like it was designed to deliberately overheat, even if the gap is filled with thermal goop  .

    And after an evening of looking around at newer stuff, it is pathetic. The stuff is either good and no longer produced, or it can't even deliver 35MB/s on USB3.0  , I can do better with core-stack memory and individual jellybean transistors from the 1980's.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    You make a good point! My mother's old netbook barely copes with merely connecting to the internet, and then an email webpage loads for five minutes. The problem isn't the connection speed - the same modem works perfectly on my laptop. It's the fact that modern browsers and all that dynamic code on websites are indeed very demanding.

     

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    yea, I've noticed it as well. this computer has not changed in three years, yet in that time my browsing habits of organizing things into multiple windows with multiple tabs have been getting slower and slower over that time.

    and some sites are more demanding than others, and getting worse, lol.

    I figured beforI go to sleep, I should at least look at this new thing. Just to see if anything is blatantly different from former generations. I decided an easy thing would be to do a quick side by side comparison of the UDIM segregation. Clearly, some generations before G3F are not entierly UDIM and headus can't quite separate the maps, tho the important one for me is UDIM.

    Right off the bat, it does not look like the mapping on the images will be that drastically different, except for apparently the removal of the eyelash map from the base figure UDIM. I have yet to dig further then just wip up the UDIM image, so I don't know yet if there is an eyelash zone or if some other way of doing eyelashes is being done for G8F. I did get an odd error in Studio 4.8 and I just don't feel like fussing with 4.9 this evening. G8F did appear after the error in 4.8, so I shrugged it off and proceeded to send G8F to Headus for the above screen-cap. I will look at this more later on after some rest, there may be more then just the eyelashes that have changed between G3F and G8F.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    Looks like I must update something I guess.

    I was being reluctant with upgrading the 4.9 build, as that was what I had tested all the cards with so far, and I wanted to get a 1060 and 1070 into the charts as well.  looks like I'll need to borrow back the GTX960 and GT740 to retest all the cards again I guess.

    Or does it work? Looks the same as it did after I clicked 'ok' from Studio 4.8, hmmm.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    ok, maybe they fixed this, lol. for the past almost year I thought the smart tab was broken in 4.9, lol.   Just as I was making the screen-cap to show y'all another reason I do not like setting up scenes in 4.9, I noticed an obscure checkbox bottom left that is off by default.

    with that unchecked, it kind of makes something as simple as changing hair color a major tedious task of locating the mats in the content library, or just blindly guessing what is for the item in the scene, lol.

    The other fun one is that the search is a tad lobotomized, because the "Microsoft Visual c/c++ redistributable" (or dot-net-framework) code for searching for the first few letters as you type is incredibly slow apparently. So you must know exactly how something is spelled and type it out in full before anything reappears in the smart tab.  You can't just type in 'pa' for pants for example, and if the product has multiple spellings your just SOL now, lol.

    Oh, and here is a new one. Does G8F even have 3delight mats?   I have no clue what 'RSL' or 'MDL' are.   I'll take that as a resounding 'NO', lol.   I guess you just can't work with G8F unless you have seven hundred bucks to burn on a graphics card thanks to the miners scarfing up all the more affordable cards with more than 4GB on them.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    ok, G2F and G3f and G8F, are a bit more then you can render on a 4GB GTX1050Ti, lol.

    It instantly kicked over to CPU only.   in any case, I'm not sure if the new posture 'T-pose' is a function of whatever I did not have in my older versions of Daz Studio, or something new for G8F cloth fitting/making.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    In the times of major ongoing updates, I only update the beta and keep the main DS installation at a stable build.

    G8F does have a different default pose. It has certain advantages for bending and content creation.

    "RSL" is a fancy way of saying "3Delight materials". They're as meh as always. AoA Subsurface overdosed on velvet.

    RSL - Renderman Shading Language. 3Delight can understand it. MDL - Material Definition Language. Iray and mental ray can understand it.

    BTW in the content library, the folders are called "Iray" and "3Delight".

     

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