How do I add more vertices to a geometry selection?

RexRed

When I use landscapes often they are huge and the vertices are large so deforming the ground becomes impossible.

I would like to select areas of the land and make a group, subset surface, region (I am not sure what it is called) and have Daz divide the geometry itself (not SubD but the actual geometry.)

So I can deform the ground and add footprints and other geometry disturbances with meshgrabber... 

How is this done? Is there a video online or a forum thread where this process is explained or can someone point (pun) me in the right direction?

I would love to know how to give certain selected areas of a scene more geometry when it is needed.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

:)

pfunkyfize

Meshgrabber is a great tool along with the geometry editor.

I sent this tutorial up the other day for the geometry editor but it is polygon centric and not vertices centric. However vertices can still be picked out-

AFAIK, you'd have to use the bridge to Hexagon modeler to add vertices/geometry to your landscape.

Hope some of it helps

 

RexRed

Yesterday I watched the Material Zones video it is really useful and full of a lot of super nice tips! I kept waiting for something on adding vertexes but sadly it did not address my particular need. Thanks for supplying the video anyway Pfunkyfize. :)

I am really perplexed as to why some objects can't simply be quantized at a higher resolution or why certain selected geometry cannot just be made finer.

This is a HUGE problem from my perspective.

I can sort of understand why geometry cannot be added to figures because the morphs use the vertices... but, many objects do not have any morphs and it seems like adding geometry should not present any problems...

Also, if one was to add more subdivisions to existing geometry it would seem the original vertices would still be there to be acted upon by the morphs...

Adding more subdivisions should not really affect the existing morphs, but I don't know the particulars....

Taking geometry into ZBrush seems extreme and it is a pain the thought of having to learn a whole new interface just to add a few vertices.

I go into Zbrush and I am completely lost, i sit there despondent just trying to figure out how to move the camera...

What I kind of expected was in the geometry editor it lists the amount of vertices of a selected surface... If one could just click on this number and increase it... Well, wouldn't that be grand! If the overlaying surface shaders were unaffected, that would be even better! :) 

zombietaggerung

Adding vertices requires a modeling program, which DS is not. Because when vertices are added it changes the mesh.

RexRed

Hello Zombie, thanks for your comment. 

When I use the geometry editor in Daz Studio and delete mesh areas, I am, "changing the mesh". When I use mesh grabber and deform areas of geometry, I am, "changing the mesh"...

Having to export a very large terrain from Daz Studio messing with scale and textures to simply subdivide areas of a landscape mesh is really something Daz should allow us to do within the program.

Please, either Daz developers or someone on the outside make an app or provide this function to Daz to allow us to simply select a few vertices in certain kinds of objects and subdivide the geometry.

Currently, I need to cut a big hole out of the terrain or hide a section then try and match a piece of terrain to fit the hole and then match the surfaces in order to deform a section of the landscape with mesh that is quantized enough to provide some detail in the deformations.

Or, I have to export this mesh and dicker with the materials, scale and different formats and exporters. bring the mesh into another programs, figure out how to add vertices and then figure out how to import the landscape with the textures, and figure out the scale and countless other parameters dealing with the kinds of materials their settings...

This is near impossible. Just to make some deformations in mesh.

Daz should have this functionality...

When I am in Daz i can see exactly which surfaces I need to add more geometry to.

I could try and copy the terrain and replace it with terrain that has more geometry. That is a ton of work...

And that also adds a ton of geometry to my scene when I only need a few surfaces with more geometry. 

Add a subdivide script that could be used here and there would be very helpful... :)

If you have to, provide a warning that says if you subdivide this object you will be stuck with the current geometry and the morphs associated with it will no longer function.

As long as it is frozen as is that would be accepatble I think.

Most scenes would only require a very few objects to be quantized. 

And as long as you are adding to the vertices and not taking vertices away I don't see why the morphs would still not work.

zombietaggerung

Well, DS is not a modelling program, and since Hexagon is probably never going to be updated, i doubt the modeling features you are looking for will be added to DS. But, you can always submit a feature request ticket and hope. 

Catherine3678ab

IF simply adding a level of smoothing to the geometry in DS is desired, do that. Then export out that as .obj. Clear the scene and import back in the smoothed geometry. Now one can add another level of smoothing, export out the .obj file. Repeat until one has an .obj with as much smoothing applied as wanted.

Uvmapping has to be done in another program such as Hexagon [even a basic plane projection uvmap flattened would do].

Polish and fix the model "basically" and save as prop. Then use Mesh Grabber to reform it and either make morphs or export out more .obj files.

 

RexRed

Hmmm, I think the devs will be reading this thread and get the idea...

Thanks again for your input Zombie! :)

RexRed

Catherine3678ab said:

IF simply adding a level of smoothing to the geometry in DS is desired, do that. Then export out that as .obj. Clear the scene and import back in the smoothed geometry. Now one can add another level of smoothing, export out the .obj file. Repeat until one has an .obj with as much smoothing applied as wanted.

Uvmapping has to be done in another program such as Hexagon [even a basic plane projection uvmap flattened would do].

Polish and fix the model "basically" and save as prop. Then use Mesh Grabber to reform it and either make morphs or export out more .obj files.

 

Wow Catherine, I think I sort of understand what you are saying.

By exporting it as an obj it adds the smoothing directly to the geometry then.

Hmmm this seems complicated but doable.

Please correct me if I am not understanding this right. The term smoothing seems to imply that it is changing the geometry but if I do not add an amount it would simply overlay a finer mesh without actually impacting the original mesh. 

The type of landscape I am using is a plane that is generated by ultra scenery. I might have been able to make the mesh finer when I created the landscape but I do not understand the setting well enough I guess.

Also I have a lagoon scene I bought from Daz and the beach area is the same giant triangles and no way to add footprints or even slightly deform the ground to fit around sitting characters.

I am going to experiment with smoothing and look at smoothing videos on YouTube.

I think you have given me the first gigantic step in figuring this out.

It seems if i were to give the plane a basic plane uvmap maybe I might be able with scale and rotation get the original ultrascene shader image to overlay the new geometry so it lines up with the road and such.

I will try this and see how far I can get.

Thanks for your help! :) 

This is a work around but it would be better if I could just add vertices in Daz without disturbing the uvmap. 

ManFriday

There are a number of reasons why the number of vertices in a mesh must remain constant in Daz Studio.

Daz Studio has an overarching concept called "geometry modifier". Every morph is one, so is Mesh Grabber, and the D-Formers and push and smoothing modifiers built into Daz Studio are too. What they have in common is that they can displace vertices (move them around in 3D space), but they cannot add or remove vertices. There is some machinery inside Daz Studio for subdivision and HD meshes which interpolates between the vertices of a mesh, but it does not add or remove vertices from the original (the "base") mesh, which is always there.

The other reason (and this is the part I'm less familiar with) is rigging, i.e. the bones of a Daz Studio figure. The rigging also references the vertices of a mesh, and since much of the Daz ecosystem is based on the Genesis figures, all of that would break if the mesh is changed. (Which it did when Daz moved from one Genesis generation to the next, and they needed to add features to Daz Studio to convert assets between them.)

With geometry that is not rigged, like your scenery, this is less of an issue so Daz could theoretically add more modeling features to Daz Studio, but then Blender and other modelers can do all that already so the incentive for Daz to do that is just not there I guess.

FSMCDesigns

RexRed said:

Hmmm, I think the devs will be reading this thread and get the idea...

Thanks again for your input Zombie! :)

there have been numerous threads over the years where users have wanted modeling tools added to the app, so don't hold your breath.