Genesis 8 Female: modified body parts costantly intersect clothes in a dForce basic cloth animation

cmaran7

Hi, I'm pretty new to DAZ Studio, in any case I've tried a very basic thing and it drives me nuts that does not work even if I tried all the basic-to advanced tricks to make it work. I've created a new instance of a basic Genesis 8 Female character, works right. I've added red Toulouse hair, works right. I've tried to deform the character using basic Genesis 8 (Posing) controls (for example: Right/Left Pectoral > Scale > 110.6% , Right/Left Pectoral > X Scale > 125.6%, Right/Left Pectoral > Y Scale > 105.5% ), so far so good. Then I've added a dForce Bardot Outfit and it fit the figure very well. BUT when I set some poses the breast comes out of the outfit! "That's rigt" I thought, because I need to simulate the the dForce movement. So I succesfully created an animation of 90 frames at 30 frames per second with 4 preset poses (Base Pose Standing A, Base Pose Walking B, Base Pose Walking A, Base Pose Standing C). Then I set  Bardot Top > Parameters > Mesh Smoothing > [ Collision  Item = Genesis 8 Female ; Collision Iterations = 10 (I have used also 100 iterations in another test !) ] . Then I set Simulation Settings > Start Bones From Memorized Pose = On   and  Frames To Simulate = Animated (Use Timeline Play Range).

The result (after a long calculation) is a beautiful animation where the female character walks with a breast constantly out of her Bardot Top... I mean... this is certainly sexy but it is NOT what I supposed to see in a so basic test!

I hope someone could help me finding out how to contain all that esuberance of my slighty modified Genesis 8 Female character. ;P

TheMysteryIsThePoint

Hi cmaran7, welcome to your new addiction.

You're right, this should absolutely work.

It sounds strange that you would scale the pectorals instead of using some kind of body morphing product.

I would not have thought that you would need to touch smoothing; dForce will take care of that. Does the garment not have morphs for that under the shaping tab?

I would also try bumping up the collision quality.

JamesJAB

"Then I set  Bardot Top > Parameters > Mesh Smoothing > [ Collision  Item = Genesis 8 Female ; Collision Iterations = 10 (I have used also 100 iterations in another test !) ] ."

Those mesh smoothing and collision settings do not play well with dForce.  This is because the dForce calculations are done before those are applied, so if there is mesh collision for the simulation, these smoothing settings will be trying to fix it after the fact.

I would turn those off, ensure that there is no poke through by using corrective morphs and scaling on your first frame. 

The other thing to check... Load your clothing item into a blank scene and hit simulate.  If the clothing falls to the floor, you are good to go.  If it hangs in the air and ond there are only parts that look to be flowing, there are weight maps in place and only part of the  cloth is dynamic.

Richard Haseltine

Is the outfit fitting in the memorised pose? Is the figure morphed (reshaped)?

cmaran7

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

 

Thanks TheMysteryIsThePoint for the replay and the welcome :D 

"It sounds strange that you would scale the pectorals instead of using some kind of body morphing product." -> In this way I obtain a pretty good effect and I don't need to buy any additional morph: this is a inital test. I don't want to buy anything that I don't need to do a simple test.

"I would not have thought that you would need to touch smoothing; dForce will take care of that" Ok I reset the "Collision Iterations" to 3, while "Collision  Item" = "Genesis 8 Female" was also the original setting for that property so I let it like that

"Does the garment not have morphs for that under the shaping tab?" Yes it contains two morphs, so I set them to the max  (100%), they are: "Expand All" and "Loosen Lace"

"I would also try bumping up the collision quality." :  mmmh... I really don't undestand that point: you mean to increase Bardot Top > Parameters > "Collision Iterations" ?? I don't think so, because you said to let those settings as they are:  so please explain me better what you mean.

thanks alot

 

TheMysteryIsThePoint

cmaran7 said:

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

 

Thanks TheMysteryIsThePoint for the replay and the welcome :D 

"It sounds strange that you would scale the pectorals instead of using some kind of body morphing product." -> In this way I obtain a pretty good effect and I don't need to buy any additional morph: this is a inital test. I don't want to buy anything that I don't need to do a simple test.

"I would not have thought that you would need to touch smoothing; dForce will take care of that" Ok I reset the "Collision Iterations" to 3, while "Collision  Item" = "Genesis 8 Female" was also the original setting for that property so I let it like that

"Does the garment not have morphs for that under the shaping tab?" Yes it contains two morphs, so I set them to the max  (100%), they are: "Expand All" and "Loosen Lace"

"I would also try bumping up the collision quality." :  mmmh... I really don't undestand that point: you mean to increase Bardot Top > Parameters > "Collision Iterations" ?? I don't think so, because you said to let those settings as they are:  so please explain me better what you mean.

thanks alot

 

The smoothing modifier has something called a "collision object", but that is not what we're after. As @JamesJAB pointed out, these two things are mutually exclusive. If you're dForcing, you shouldn't need smoothing. When I say "collision" I am referring to the dForce parameters on the Simulation Settings tab. The main one for this sort of thing is Collision Mode, an Collision Iterations as well, but you'll want to play around with the others, too. Using dForce is more an art than a science, but for something like this I am confident that you'll figure it out; dForce isn't perfect but it's still pretty good.

cmaran7

Richard Haseltine said:

Is the outfit fitting in the memorised pose?

Yes and... no, depends: at the beginning, when the female character was in Genesis base pose (not T-POSE but the new one of Genesis 8), it fitted the body (the breast was already been scaled up),  but then, when I set the poses the breast started to owerflow clipping over the cloth (the blue part of the Bardot Top, the veil is over the breast). I hoped that the simulation would have resolved the clipping but I was wrong about it.

Richard Haseltine said:

Is the figure morphed (reshaped)?

No, I just scaled the breast as I described above, nothing more.

felis

If a dForce clothing is clipping before you start the simulation it is very likely to fail.

The important thing when using dForce is to avoid to trap the clothing, because then the energy in the trapped verteces can't be properly distributed, and will then either cause explossions or at least bad result.

That is why I almost only use timeline when using dForce, as you then can make in between adjustments to avoid e.g. an arm passing through the torso and thereby trapping the clothing.

But if yours is clipping before starting you need to get that clipping away first.

cmaran7

Thanks to all that have replyed me. Even if I have not answered directly to all of you I tried pretty much all of your advise.

I tried better quality simulation, more passes, set off smoothing, tried to enlarge /morph the bardot top... I tried even to shrink the breast to normal, but still ... was clipping and poking out!!! Every time the bardot top falls on the body (from normal model position to dForce position) the breast (nipples in particular) still poke off the clothes... that was annoying because it was a basic test of a basic Genesis 8 femal with initally available dForce cloth. 

Every time I left the last word to dForce, it will make the cloth be clipped by the G8F curves... So I decided not to leave the last word to dForce.

At the end I have resolved in a pretty good way... for a simple test like this one (even if that test take me way too long time): I don't know if this is a workflow that could be accepted in a professional project.

This is the procedure I used to resolve:

I reset all the previuos simulations. I have positioned the girl (base gf8, with bumped breast like I have explained above) in a pose with no breast clipping (with Bardot Top). I set off mesh smoothing and collision settings.

Then I launched the simulation with default parameters (and  Simulation Settings > Start Bones From Memorized Pose = On  ,  Frames To Simulate = Animated (Use Timeline Play Range) ): nipples poking and breast clipping all over the place like before (sigh).

But, AFTER the simulation has finished I set those parameters:

- Bardot Top > Parameters > Transforms > Scale : 103.0%   (this stop Left and Right Pectoral from clipping the cloth)

- Bardot Top > Shaping > Adjustements > Expand All + Loosen Lace : 100%   (this stop Nipples from clipping the cloth)

And that works also maintaining the dForce simulated deformations of the cloth during all the movements of the animation.

In any case I'm pretty disappointed from the fact that dForce just does not work out of the box and without further tweakings.

Only a question: why dForce does not work out of the box, with default settings, even in a so basic example test?