New PC Advice please
anikad
Posts: 1,919
I'm looking to get a new pc which will cope with the demands of my 3d hobby (thanks for that friend!). I currently have a four year old Dell Inspiron 350 which really wasn't built for this! I would like to have something that will last me a few years but will still allow me to upgrade. I looked at building my own sytem and spec'd out a couple of systems
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/anikad/saved/2ZUq
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/anikad/saved/2FGU
Which were coming in at the £1100 mark.
Someone then mentioned PC Specialist as a good supplier. I've managed to spec something at £1005 including VAT and warranty. Spec below. In addition to rendering with Daz & Poser I want to pick up zbrush and possibly modo. So I would hope to use the system for modelling as well. Does anyone have any advice about my chosen build?
Case
ZALMAN Z11 PLUS BLACK MID TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-4820K (3.7GHz) 10MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® P9X79 LE: INTEL® SOCKET LG2011
Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz, X.M.P (2 x 8GB KIT)
Graphics Card
1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE 210 - DVI, HDMI, VGA
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
120GB KINGSTON V300 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (450MB/R, 450MB/W)
2nd Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply
CORSAIR 550W VS SERIES™ VS-550 POWER SUPPLY
Processor Cooling
INTEL SOCKET LGA2011 STANDARD CPU COOLER
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 2 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365
Anti-Virus
BULLGUARD INTERNET SECURITY - FREE 90 DAY TRIAL
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 11 working days
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
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Comments
The only thing about Windows Home Premium, is the 16 GB memory limit, I would go for the next one up if I were you. Ihave Home Premium and upgraded last year to 16 GB, but a bit more would often come in handy.
The rest of the system looks great.
Thanks, I didn't realise there was a limit. Now I just need to decide if I should windows 8.1 instead seeing as both are the same price.
Personally I would stick with Win 7, I will never allow Win 8 on my PC. That of course is just my own personal opinion.
PC specialist build a really good solid machine. My last one gave me very good service for almost 6 years before I upgraded, and although I pushed it really hard it never let me down, has never needed anything done to it and is still working now, The new one, which has just had it's first birthday is doing fine as well. I have Windows 7 Home Premium on it. I was offered a free upgrade to Win 8 but turned down the offer.
As long as you don't select a 32 bit windows you should be fine. :) I run into the C++ 1.7 GB memory limit often. Its a long story.
Windows 8 is just fine...all the peopel that complain about it just don't like the idea that their start button is away
I have it on my desktop and easily have a start button and works JUST like windows 7. In fact, it's better then windows 7
Definitely agree with that. Daz and Solid State Drives are a match made in heaven. Is your content also going to be on the drive? Only recommendation I'd make would be get a bigger one as your windows install will take about 18gig of that.
As long as it's better than vista I'll be happy. I've not experienced Windows 7 so I guess I don't know what I'm missing but I've heard all the comments about how Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7.
Definitely agree with that. Daz and Solid State Drives are a match made in heaven. Is your content also going to be on the drive? Only recommendation I'd make would be get a bigger one as your windows install will take about 18gig of that.
My content is currently half on my c drive and half on the secondary internal hard drive I had to buy. My plan was to move it all to the secondary drive then move that drive to the new computer.
Made some change based on your original configuration.
Took higher Corsair Memory (2400 instead of 1600)
Intel SSD instead of Kingston : they are the most reliable HDD. Eventually go for a 2TB for the 2nd drive
changed the PSU to a 750W : if you later add some components, you'll have enough power. A good PSU is important
Changed to a Gigabyte Motherboard. They make good MB. you don't need the most expensive one. A middle is OK
Changed the Graphic Card to GTX 760 with 4 Gb Vram. If you plan to model, eventually a good GC is important. Plus you can use this one for GPU rendering. You could make the choice of buying a Professionnal GC instead (Quadro or Firepro). The pro cards could be better at handling high poly count than gaming card in some pro modeling software. I don't know what's the best choice for Zbrush. Sidenote, there is already an integrated graphic card so you could buy the GC later as the integrated should be enough for DS or Poser
Changed OS to Win7 Pro x64.
The end price is not much higher than yours (1163) http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/2cgtS
Win8 is as good as Win7 albeit a few incompatibilities with drivers or softwares. If you already have Win7 I don't recommend to upgrade.
I agree! With the Windows 8.1 upgrade you can start with the usual windows user interface (Versus Modern UI). File structure is the same as in windows 7. Startup runs faster. Anyway win 8 or Win 7 go for a 64bits system - You'll need to download/find the drivers for your older hardware (32bits drivers not compatible with 64 bits systems).
As for the RAM. For 64 bits systems it is only limited by how much RAM the motherboard can handle. From MS site:
32-bit versions of Windows 8 support up to 4 GB of RAM. The 64-bit version of Windows 8 Pro supports up to 512 GB while the 64-bit version of Windows 8 (standard) supports up to 128 GB.
Windows 8 Pro supports a maximum of 2 physical CPUs and the standard version of Windows 8 just one. In total, up to 32 logical processors are supported in 32-bit versions of Windows 8, while up to 256 logical processors are supported in 64-bit versions.
No hardware limitations were changed in the Windows 8.1 update.
It's less about the "Start button" than it is about the UI; if I wanted a tablet/mobile phone interface, that's what I would be using. Call me ild fashioned if you want, but I think platform appropriate interfaces are better than the one interface to rule them all approach. ;-)
It's less about the "Start button" than it is about the UI; if I wanted a tablet/mobile phone interface, that's what I would be using. Call me ild fashioned if you want, but I think platform appropriate interfaces are better than the one interface to rule them all approach. ;-)
You can download a third party software like "classic shell" to get the start menu and there is an option in Win8 to directly open the desktop UI instead of the tablet interface. With that the UI is the same as Win7
That is not the biggest issue in my view. It's rather that compatibility is narrower. Some programs that worked for me in Win 7 don't work anymore. There are not a lot like that but it's pretty annoying
There are enhancement that are worth it but that user may not know or see. One of them being that now it checks the HDD in the background and repairs errors automatically. Before you had to do it by hand and restart your computer for the System drive. There are other tweaks like that and I guess most people don't know that
I checked all the specs you gave us. If this is going to be a modeling system then some caveats:
-Win 7 or Win 8 Go for a 64 bits system. Studio right now rendering on my system and takes up nearly 5 GB RAM. Photoshop is open, Mail is running and Internet Explorer has a few tabs open. A 32 Bits system can't handle that.
-SSD 120? If this is going to be a system disk then go at least for a 250 GB SSD.
-GPU should be Geforce 760 2 GB or a Radeon HD7650 3GB. Those GPUs are consistent with your specs. I prefer Geforce GPUs for CUDA.
-HDD go for 2TB disks.
I have the SSD as C: and a Second Sata as D: set up. I will tell you this, install the LARGEST SSD you can, 120 will fill up fast with just Prg's that Demand the boot drive as standard install. There are ways around that but that defeats the purpose of the SSD.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advice. Looks like I need to hold off until the new year, while I save up some more cash to increase my specs.
@anikad : you're welcome. A little remark on the build I made : I couldn't get a Haswell CPU on the site you linked but that is what you should buy.
Concerning SSD : that is a choice. It will boost your reading performance for sure and they seem more reliable than classic HDD as they won't fail because of mechanical
But they are also more expensive. On the reliability question I can just say that it is not old enough to know for sure how the components react after 4 or 5 years. And the tech behind that is changing every years so it is a bit hard to have a general assumption
Samsung made some new low cost tech for SSD (TLC). The drives are cheaper but have a lower lifespan than MLC or SLC based SSD; Theorical calculations and test showed that they should anyway last more than 5 years but that can only be really confirmed in a few years.
I can only say that even with Intel's MLC I had some drives that didn't pass the 3 years (2 or 3 of 50-100 in my company). What is sure is that the costs will go down. So we'll certainly end up buying 1TB SSD in a few years for the same price
Thanks for the advice. Looks like I need to hold off until the new year, while I save up some more cash to increase my specs.
A little tip with PC Specialist. If you are going to wait a while before buying your PC, then save a copy of your specs, as they will disappear after a certain amount of time if you just leave it on their site. That will make it easier for you to pick up where you left off, when you decided to redo the specs.
I haven't found this to be true, although obviously, it will vary from user to user, depending on what programs you use.
I built my own pc from scratch this summer and installed a Samsung 120Gb SSD, plus 2x 250Gb HDDs (10,000 rpm). My C drive (ie. the SSD) is currently using 34.7Gb of space, with 84.3Gb free (Win 7 x64-bit).
Now, I'm a modeller and use a fair variety of programs - 3d Max, Photoshop, DS, Poser, etc - but most of my programs only have the installed components on C - all related content is on partitions on the HDDs, (to avoid constant writing to the SSD). The actual program installs don't take up much space - it's the content. And you really don't want to be writing to the SDD all the time since it has a limited amount of read/writes. (This isn't so much of an issue as it was with older SSDs. The newer ones are vastly improved).
Anyway, it's all a matter of how you approach your installation and where you put your content. There's certainly no harm in getting a bigger SSD, but if it's a question of putting off the entire purchase because of that, I'd say go for the smaller one and use it sensibly.
mac
If you go for mobo with 2011 socket then have at least 4 sticks of memory to run 4-channel (speeds the things up). I'd mention 2400 MHz Geil memory as it is well known (at least here) to hold the price at minimum level for excellent quality.
Do not use standard Intel cooling, it is not enough to cool 130 wt CPU to the optimal temperature at peak load. Look at Thermalright coolers, mid level price, like True Spirit or Macho, or at last Archon. Silver Arrow would just please your ego, avoid it. Also as an option look at Scythe and Cooler Master CPU coolers. There are wide range of good quality and performance alternatives.
Get nVidia graphics with 3-6 Gb memory onboard, this will allow to use some of GPU renders as most of them use CUDA technologies. 760 is not bad but 770 is one and a half times more productive while just a bit more expensive. AMD cards then is not clever choice as very few renders may use OpenCL.
Yes, people are right on PSU. As it not only may be used to feed more devices but also tends to lose power over time. So, 650-800 wt is a required minimum.
Just wondering why one would want a SSD drive any way ?
Is it just to boot faster ?
Try PhotoShop dumping and reading history and states of a 4-8 Gb .psd file on a standard HDD and a last generation SSD. Feel the difference.
Try PhotoShop dumping and reading history and states of a 4-8 Gb .psd file on a standard HDD and a last generation SSD. Feel the difference.
But isn't that going to burn out the SSD faster ?
Since we're talking about new hardware, I just put an order in for the following:
Western Digital Red NAS Hard Drive WD20EFRX 2TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Item #: N82E16822236343
$119.99
$94.99
Rosewill LIGHTNING-1000 1000W Continuous @ 50°C, Intel Haswell Ready, 80 PLUS GOLD, ATX12V v2.31 & EPS12V v2.92, SLI/CrossFire ...
Item #: N82E16817182239
$169.99
Intel S1400FP2 Server Motherboard - Intel C600-A Chipset - Socket B LGA-1366 - Retail Pack
Item #: N82E16813121739
$297.99
Wintec 48GB (6 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ECC Registered Server Memory Model 3RSL160011R5H-48GH
Item #: N82E16820161557
$569.99
Intel Intel Xeon E3-1245V3 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80646E31245V3
Item #: N82E16819116909
$289.99
Rosewill THOR V2 Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case, support up to E-ATX / XL-ATX, come with Four Fans - 1 x Front Red LED ...
Item #: N82E16811147053
$129.99
Intel S1400FP2 Server Motherboard - Intel C600-A Chipset - Socket B LGA-1366 - Retail Pack
Item #: N82E16813121739
$297.99
Wintec 48GB (6 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ECC Registered Server Memory Model 3RSL160011R5H-48GH
Item #: N82E16820161557
$569.99
Cooler Master Seidon 240M - Water/Liquid CPU Cooling System with 240 mm Radiator and Two Fans
Item #: N82E16835103181
$94.99
Creative Sound Blaster Z 70SB150000000 5.1 Channels PCI Express (x1, x4 or x16) Interface Sound Card
Item #: N82E16829102048
$119.99
USD$1767.92 plus shipping. If I have my math correct, that would be about 959 GBP. Can you purchase through the USA
without incurring import duty?
But isn't that going to burn out the SSD faster ?
No, it won't !
What is a killer for SSDs is to continually overwrite the cells. Thus no system cache on SSD.
What also kills a system SSD is that the User directory is in c:\users. So it is on that drive that for example Internet Explorer will store its temporary files. Most mail clients wll also save their files there. These files get constantly overwritten.
This being said when cells are 'disabled' a hard reset of a SSD will erase all cells and set the SSD back to factory state. This will also erase all files on the SSD.
I haven't found this to be true, although obviously, it will vary from user to user, depending on what programs you use.
I built my own pc from scratch this summer and installed a Samsung 120Gb SSD, plus 2x 250Gb HDDs (10,000 rpm). My C drive (ie. the SSD) is currently using 34.7Gb of space, with 84.3Gb free (Win 7 x64-bit).
Now, I'm a modeller and use a fair variety of programs - 3d Max, Photoshop, DS, Poser, etc - but most of my programs only have the installed components on C - all related content is on partitions on the HDDs, (to avoid constant writing to the SSD). The actual program installs don't take up much space - it's the content. And you really don't want to be writing to the SDD all the time since it has a limited amount of read/writes. (This isn't so much of an issue as it was with older SSDs. The newer ones are vastly improved).
Anyway, it's all a matter of how you approach your installation and where you put your content. There's certainly no harm in getting a bigger SSD, but if it's a question of putting off the entire purchase because of that, I'd say go for the smaller one and use it sensibly.
mac
Well, I think that most users don't know how to use a SSD 'sensibly' :)
Even for people well aware of what they are doing sometimes space gets lost on a SSD. Most of the time you'll then need special (free) software to know what directory is growing and try to find a solution to the problem.
Thanks. Those prices look good but unfortunately i can't take advantage, it will probably work out more expensive because of the additional charges I will incurr. If the item is over £135 I have to pay customs duty. If the item is over £15 I will also have to pay VAT (Value Added Tax) which will add 20% to the price. Oh and if customs doesn't believe the price on the declaration form they can create a new price and then charge you VAT basd on that.
Then there will be the handling fee for the courier to pay all these charges on my behalf. Plus the courier charges themselves.
You make a good point about the newness of SSD. I think I might get a smaller SSD now and then get a larger one down the road.
A little tip with PC Specialist. If you are going to wait a while before buying your PC, then save a copy of your specs, as they will disappear after a certain amount of time if you just leave it on their site. That will make it easier for you to pick up where you left off, when you decided to redo the specs.
Thanks, I'll do that.