Ever heard of or used overpainting, on renders?
Llamacorn
Posts: 0
Hey everybody! I was wondering if anybody has heard of or used overpainting for their renders? I have been bringing mine into photoshop and lightroom to get a better image but it still have the great look of an overpainted render.
I came across an artist here at DAZ that just blew me away with this…His name is Isikol.
here is his gallery here at DAZ
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/?q=isikol&x=-1409&y=-983
DeviantART
http://isikol.deviantart.com
Portfolio
http://isikol.daportfolio.com
Check his stuff out. it really is awesome!
I attached a couple samples of his stuff…
I really want to pursue this technique in the never ending struggle to get better.
here is a link to my gallery as well
http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#galleries/4201/
What I have been told so far is to look into traditional painting then apply that in photoshop. I have ZERO experience in that so I will have to learn like Mowgli did, on my own.
If you have experimented with this before, please feel free to post your work! I want to get as many peeps talking about this as we can. Bounce ideas off each other so we can all improve.
Thanks for taking the time to look!
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Comments
Hello!
Yes, I think overpainting is well known and commonly used by professional artists. This turns a "normal" render into a unique piece of art.
Sometimes I have tried it for myself. It is not easy at the beginning, but much fun to do. A little practise and you can do almost everything. However - in my opinion - photo editing programs like PhotoShop are a bit limited for this kind of work, because they are mainly photo editing programs and no painting programs. If you want to use this technique seriously you should have a look at programs like Corel Painter, which is a real painting program with lots of painting features.
Unfortunately, here on this forums you will not find big help with this, because here people tend to create and fix everything in the render itself. Excessive use of shaders, lights, textures, tricks and cheats is the game here :-)
If you want to have more info about painting, you should visit some other cg art sites.
Strangely enough we had a New Users Contest on postwrok, back on the old forum, and it didn't really take off. Similarly in the old forum archive there were a couple of threads in the Art Studio, which didn't go far.
Perhaps it is time to try again.
I'm so glad you asked this.
More than a year ago I asked the man himself on DA.
Never got a reply.
Your question now inspired me to visit his gallery and there I noticed the two tutorials.
So, go to: http://isikol.deviantart.com/gallery/
...and download he two .jpg. (no need to log-in)
I still have to study them.... later...
Actually I think you will find that a lot more artist use postwork and overpainting to some degree than perhaps you think but it is often considered cheating on these forums so not many mention it, its also quite difficult to explain what you do and how.
LOL… thanks tjeb. oddly enough I skipped over those without noticing.
Actually I think you will find that a lot more artist use postwork and overpainting to some degree than perhaps you think but it is often considered cheating on these forums so not many mention it, its also quite difficult to explain what you do and how.
I figured that more people used it then lead on about it. What I don't understand is that it seems no matter what form or art community you go to there will be people who think you are "cheating". Like over at CGsociety. they blast just about anyone who uses Poser or Daz, because it is "cheating". It seems that there will be purists everywhere you go.
Don't get me wrong. You have to be honest with people about your work. how you made it, what you did. If you post a render from Poser at CGsociety and claim that you modeled it from scratch in C4D, then you are "cheating". trying to get praise for something you didn't do.
My view is:
Its all ART! however it was created or put together. it took thought and expression to make it happen. I am also a photographer for a living and my dad is a retired photographer. I use a digital camera to take my pictures and he says its cheating because I get instant feedback of the image. "You don't have to know about photography to take a picture". And he is right. I can concentrate on composition and effect of lighting instead of my light meter to tell me what F stop to shoot at.
This overpainting style is really cool and I would love to learn it. To me it brings a personal touch to a render. I want to find a way to express myself and my ideas but find my skills to be the limiting factor.
Thanks for all the replies so far. You guys ROCK! keep up with the convo and HAPPY RENDERING!!!! :-)
In my opinion overpainting and postworking are 2 different things.
Postworking is more or less enhancing your image. Adjust colors, crop to a better size, fix errors, and maybe add some accents here and there.
With overpainting on the other side, you can get a whole different image. Paint a custom background, paint hair, paint clothes, even paint light and shadows.
So, postworking is a more technical process, whereas overpainting is much more artistic.
In my opinion overpainting and postworking are 2 different things.
Postworking is more or less enhancing your image. Adjust colors, crop to a better size, fix errors, and maybe add some accents here and there.
With overpainting on the other side, you can get a whole different image. Paint a custom background, paint hair, paint clothes, even paint light and shadows.
So, postworking is a more technical process, whereas overpainting is much more artistic.
absolutely! I really want to get into that artistic side of overpainting put don't rightly know where to start.
Hey, thanks for watching the thread and posting. it means a lot to have feedback on thoughts that I have.
THanks! :)
Well, I am in the same boat. Just setting up scenes and hit the render button is not enough for me :-)
I started with watching and reading tutorials about digital painting. How to paint clothes, how to paint hair and so on. That moves you to the right direction.
And the other "training" is just to watch and analyse images that you like.
One more word about cheating: From a different point of view you could say that if you want to create some art, then the only cheating everyone does is to use programs like DAZ Studio or Poser :-) :-)
Thanks XoechZ! Ive been doing the same thing. I ended up getting a digital tutors subscription!!! So that is a big step for me. we ll see what happens.
About cheating: Yes I see that point, but in its own right Poser or Daz is just another medium to express your "art". just like the traditional painter might say 3D modeling is cheating.
I agree that overpainting and postwork are different but I feel that they can be combined.
In August RDNA monthly challenge was to make a render look like a 2D image,
This one was beautifully overpainted
This shows the before and after image.
http://www.runtimedna.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastupby&cat=0&pos=6&uid=69349
I agree with many of the points above.
I live in awe of those traditional illustrators and cartoonists who produce the most wonderful images from scratch and do feel we cheat in reproducing that style.
It is the same thing loading a photo into photoshop and applying a sketch filter to make it look like it was hand drawn.
There is the argument that the end justifies the means and the final image is all that is important. But, I think, part of the appeal of the image is the manner by which it was produced.
That said, styles of image will convey a message relative to that image. A Samurai attacking a robot would look great in a Manga style but ridiculous as pallet knifed oils.
I think the main thing is to be honest in what you are doing. Convey the feel of the image you want to produce in what ever way you feel appropriate and advantagious.
It is a risk though. If it works, it works; if it doesn't you have the graphical equivalent of a plastic beamed Tudor Theme Pub. :-(
Right.
So, if you are a renderer then painting is cheating, if you are a painter then rendering is cheating :-)
I am neither the one, nor the other. I am an artist - better said I try to be one. So I do not care about it. I do what I like and when it looks good, it is good. I think it is not important how an image was created, it is only important how it looks in the end. If you want a special effect in your image, or a special hairstyle or cloth and it is not doable in the render, then just paint it. What is the problem? I dont see any!
Yah that is really good. People got MAD skills! I would love the ability to do that!
I like how you put it, " be honest in what you are doing".you are not cheating if you advertise your art as a sketch filtered photograph. you are cheating if your advertise your art as a hand drawn piece.
In cg art it is not only skills. Of course, some skills are always good. But it is also a little bit of know-how, knowing the "tricks" to make things look in certain way. And it is practise, practise, practise, practise....
Every program has an undo function, so you can experiment as long as you want. No canvas is ruined, no oils are wasted. Just practise, try out things, and if it looks bad, undo and start all over.
AMEM! So true! there really is no over night trick to this. We always strive to be better than we are. and I love what some people are doing with over painting. another one of my favs is this person:
http://www.bibleheroposters.com/magento/
not so much overpainting but they might use poser or DAZ for t the figures. there are a couple heroes with some DAZ clothes i think.
You can also have a look here:
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?userid=17015
Watch his gallery. He has also 2 tutorials in his store where he explains what he is doing. He calls them "Basics Of Postwork" and "Advanced Postwork", but actually this is no postwork, it is overpainting - well explained, easy to follow and full of tricks and tips.
Ignoring if anyone is cheating (and who cares it is the vision that counts not the execution) I love the freedom that the comic book/over painted look provides.
I like a girl in a bikini; I'm a bloke of such an age where such images were common place. Now with the dreaded Political Correctness Police I am aware that (because I tend to do straight renders) if I include a girl in a bikini that could be considered a little sordid - it is irreverent that she isn't a girl at all just a collection of 1's and 0's.
Now, with comic art, muscles can be bigger, breasts can be perter, skirts can be shorter, jaws can be squarer buttocks can be rounder and blouses more shredded and nobody blinks an eye because it is in a graphical style.
The joke is, the photos we see in the press of "real" beautiful people are generally so significantly manipulated that they bare little resemblance to the real person anyway.
The whole world has gone man, just do what ever makes you happy......but you'll probably get away with a great deal more if you do it in a graphical style ;-)
LOL thanks for the advice! Sounds like you got a little built up anger? perhaps you should render something. might make you feel better. :-)
Feel free to share it here if you do!
he's really good too. See this is totally awesome! peeps showing who and where around the web are doing this overpainting style!
Love it THANKS! :lol:
I don't pay much attention to the accusations of artists on what is or is not art.
I say enjoy your over painting, post work, or a pencil sketch and do what YOU enjoy. Ultimately, the only person we really have to please in the end is ourselves. Living to please others never works.
=-)
(Of course, sometimes pleasing myself is a hassle I admit. =-) )
LOL! I totally agree.
Isikol's very inspiring. He posts on the forum occasionally so you might come across him here.
As you'll know if you've had a chance to read through his tutorials, his painting includes use of Ron's brushes, which are an excellent resource to have. You can get them in the store, sometimes with nice discounts: http://www.daz3d.com/deviney
Part of being an artist is knowing when -- and how -- to use the tools at your disposal. I agree that the only cheating is claiming you used one technique when you did something completely different. Other than that, it comes down to skill, whether post-working or over-painting. As far as I'm concerned, it's the end result that counts.
Looking forward to seeing more of your work, Llamacorn.
i love those brush sets! I hope to pick some up soon.
Thank you Jindi. I hope to be sharing more of my stuff in the near future. Right now I'm in the process of making a scene of Naomi and Ruth, from the Bible. where Naomi tells Ruth and Orpa to go back to Moab. Ruth stays with Naomi and Orpa goes back. anyway, that scene is going to be next. I guess Ill just post it in my gallery when I'm done. Not really to sure if I should post on the forum as well.
I set up my scenes in Vue using models and figures that I create in DAZ. I do all of this with my end image in mind. The end image is created in photoshop. I use filters not to mimic other art forms but to get to my goal which involves composition, a general feeling, and usually a concept I want to get across. At times I also use Corel Painter. All the programs are part of my process.
Practice and experimentation are the key. Learn how you can control your software. Don't let it control you. Always push it to get what you want. Find the combination of programs that will help you realize your idea.
Before even the digital camera, artists felt photos were cheating. And even museums wouldn't show photographs. Don't worry what others say, just work to realize what you want to portray.
Awesome batesboy! Thanks for tour thoughts.
So do you paint everything in photoshop over a render from vue?
Quoting this whole post for emphasis, and I totally agree. Keep in mind what we would call "traditional artists" used live models for reference, or photo references once the technology came around. If I recall correctly, Poser actually started off as a human figure reference, that you could pose how you wanted so you didn't have to hire a model.
Yes, there are those that want to get the final picture out of the renderer. There are those that use the very basic pose of the render as the starting point and then completely paint over it. There is everyone else in between. All techniques are valid. Everyone has different skill sets, different parts of the process they enjoy, and different visions they want to share. Use whatever tools you have at your disposal, do what you have to do to get your vision out of your head and on to the paper or the screen as you see fit.
And yes, practice. Practice some more. And never stop growing.
Quoting for emphasis :-)
Hi Llamacorn
I have painted over a render, but normally I use lots of layers in photoshop isolating the individual objects. I apply filters to different layers as well as using the adjustment tools in photoshop. If you want to see what I am talking about go to my website of perpetualvisions.com and go to the urban or vue 6 gallery links on the first page. The composite on the front are photos of my tame wild rabbit.