Lighting the scene options
Hi,
Browsing through the many lighting products for DS, I find myself somewhat overwhelmed. While there are many ways to light a scene (basic 3 light setup, live preview in DS, layers and filters in Photoshop...), what would be the most simple yet effective way to light scenes for outdoor as well as indoor renders? I've been using the Predatron DS Lights and my renders look amazing - BUT - they take an eternity to render, especially since I'm using large files for print.
Your words of wisdom would be appreciated - as always.
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I mostly use Uber Enviroment 2 for a ambient kind of light, Distant light for sun or such, and spot lights. Some times I play with Point lights and Linear Point lights (the last two take lsightly longer to render)
I rarely use a bought lightset, even if it does happen :) There is a couple of threads on lihgting here in the New User Help forum that Szark has made, these has helped me a lot with playing with lights and such :) Here's a few links
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23911/
Ther eis probably more threads with information and tutorials, but these are the ones I have used a lot :) Good luck and hope they help
Thanks Carola
My advice it to learn about the lights themselves and make you own sers, yes it will take a time to learn but your pocket and your scenes will be better for it. I never use the same light rig twice, the scene I am making at the time dictates to me the lights I use. I never save presets. I have bought a few lights like Uber Point, Spots and Soft light Kit, but these aren't full rigs but elements of. I use Uber Environment a lot too but again this is just a base.
Thanks Carola and Szark - indeed, a lot to learn!
Hi Pete, I've been using this approach, working with one spotlight. Amazing the difference between character mats, using one spotlight, same light settings. Learning lighting is a challange, efforts will benefit in the end. Thanx for info.
Yeah if I am struggling with the light I turn then all off and the turn one on at a time.making sure I turn on UE2 last.
I'm definitely not a lighting expert. However I usually use UberEnvironment for ambient lighting, then use one other light source to match each real light source (the sun, a ceiling light, a bunch of candles, etc.). After that, if I'm not happy, I might cheat and add lights that make no logical sense to tweak the scene the way I want if I think I can get away with it, like putting a very dim spotlight on an object in a shadowy corner that just isn't lit well otherwise or add a color cast to the light in just part of the scene.
I don't have the Predatron DS Lights and don't know how they work or if they have adjustable settings, but if you use something like UberEnvironment, research the settings to find a good tradeoff between speed and quality for your scene. You can lower the quality for a faster render for well-lit scenes, but you get problems like graininess in the shadows that might require adjusting the parameters such that it renders super-slow.
Pete, I've used your approach of turning off lights one at a time. It works well in understanding what each one adds to the scene as well as how they work together. I've read your posts on lighting. Thanks for the detailed info.!
Sean, the Predatron light set comes with a 3 light setup - sun, specular and UberEnvironment2, all of which are adjustable. Experimenting seems to work well, though it can be a time-suck, but I find that playing around is a good learning experience.
My most detailed render so far, a 550 Kb file took over a day to render! I don't want to compromise (too much) on an 8 x 10 image for print. And I still have post work in Photoshop. The Light Dome Pro seems to work within Photoshop so maybe that's worth considering in saving time.
Distant lights, spot lights, and point lights can do amazing things. A couple distant lights from either side, and one in front, with different intensities, can be a good starting point. UE2 benefits from a specular light, because otherwise it can be flat.
My art studio thread has examples of lights, there are tutorials that describe the placement step by step. I also have an entire section (that you can access from the first post) showing you the light presets that not only come with the light packages, but what comes with individual products. You can study the light placements and learn from them, even if you don't use them. Or tweak them.
Just see my signature, it's easy to find.
Yes that approach works well in teaching yourself about lighting but it needs a lot of test rendering to get a true undertsanding of what does what. For me that is my prefered method of learning...but we all need help sometime.
Novica, thanks for the links - all useful information.
If only my renders didn't take two days to complete!
We may be able to reduce that time of rendering if you want to share what lighting you are using, its settings, the Advanced Render Settings and also if you have reflections and transmapped surfaces.
Pete, after 18 hours the render is at 53%.
I'm using the Predatron 3 light setup - I can't give you the specifics until the render is done but everything is at its default setting.
These are very large files so I'm sure that's what slows down the process the most (8x10 @ 300dpi). At least it gives me more time to write while I wait this out - LOL!
Advanced Render Settings: Max Ray Trace a value of 2 by Default. If you don't have or want a reflection of a reflection but do have reflections try a value of 1. If you have refraction on some surfaces then the Max Ray Trace Depth needs to match the number of surfaces the refraction of light needs to pass through for the effect to have full effect. So no Refraction but reflection = Max ray Trace Depth to 1. No Refraction or Reflections = Max Ray Trace Depth of 0. At Zero Ray Traced Shadows will still be effective and work as they should.
If using say the new AOA SSS Shader Base then it is a good idea to leave Max Ray Trace Depth at 2 or more as the need arises.
Then another killer is the Advanced Render Settings Shading rate. !.00 is the default and I would never leave it there for a final render, but again depending on what surfaces you have 0.70 can give good results, 0.50 much better and for medium high quality start to think 0.20 getting all the way down to 0.01 for extreme super sampling.
These two setting when set up right can save or add render times. The Max Ray trace is the biggest killer IMHO.
Then comes to what lights and how they are set up but it was mentioned above the light rig you are using contains Uber Environment 2, if this light is set to extreme Quality settings where a lower one might suffice then that save time also. If UE2 is set up using the High 4X UE2 Quality Preset that comes with Daz Studio then there is not much you can do for final renders.
Displacement Maps, well displacement will slow down the render so any surface that is far away remove the displacement maps. This is true if using DOF, you’re going to blur the background so no need for displacement maps.
Soft Shadows will also drive up render times,
How complex the scene is the more it needs to calculate etc. Choose the render settings for your scene, each and every time. Smaller the image the lower the quality threshold, bigger the image is the higher you go and think of your surfaces, do you need a high Max Ray Trace depth when a lower value will do.
Thanks so much, Pete! Much appreciated.
I will look at my render settings and make some adjustments. All this is still pretty new to me and some of the technical aspects are way over my head (at least for now!).
I think it helps a lot to really love doing this - and seeing the final results.
Eventually...
pop over over to my Render Thread, link below and one the first page at the top are a few links that might help through this.
Thanks Pete!
I'm taking notes!
3Delight renders quickly for me, till I add Uber2 ! Then rendering is slow as honey during winter months, Lol !!! If system does not freeze/crash. I render file in 3Delight, normally takes a minute or two, add Uber2 now same file takes 30+ minutes.
Although I haven't figured out how to use yet, Lux renders really well on my system. Some files I try to render with 3Delight/Uber2 freeze/crash system, but Lux will render, just takes time.
Alway's fun to experiment :cheese:
For me, the majority of simple renders using UE2 and a single raytraced light usually take less than 5 minutes to render, and that's while leaving occlusion on hair. Remove the hair occlusion and I can reduce that down to maybe 2-3 minutes.
Luxus generally takes longer to render, but doesn't tax your PC to the limits, so it's something you can use in the background while focusing on other tasks. That's likely why you find it much easier to work with. They're both good engines, but they're used for very different types of images. I tend to use Lux when I'm looking for realism, and 3DL when I'm looking for a nice crisp image.
Hi Herald, thanx for info friend :-) Definetly tips I can use, while exploring Uber2 in the future. Will take note of Bounce GI. Uber2 gives my pc a major workout, Lol !!! I like using Lux, but have no idea how to use it at the moment, my brain is fried from excessive reading, Lol !!!! Will get to Lux manual shortly. Lux is very realistic. For some odd reason, 3Delight has a tendency to freeze/crash alot, opposed to other render engines, specially with V4,. Basic female building, works fine 3Delight. Very strange.
You need to be careful which method you use with UberEnvironment. I'd advise against anything which uses 'Bounce GI' as that drastically bumps render times up. A 20 minute render for me turned into a 12 hour render just by turning it on! There are some good presets for UE2 which give decent quality without stressing your PC too much, but it will vary depending on your PC's specs.For me, the majority of simple renders using UE2 and a single raytraced light usually take less than 5 minutes to render, and that's while leaving occlusion on hair. Remove the hair occlusion and I can reduce that down to maybe 2-3 minutes.
Luxus generally takes longer to render, but doesn't tax your PC to the limits, so it's something you can use in the background while focusing on other tasks. That's likely why you find it much easier to work with. They're both good engines, but they're used for very different types of images. I tend to use Lux when I'm looking for realism, and 3DL when I'm looking for a nice crisp image.
I have a Daul Core, 2GB Ram, Vista system and I cannot render using DS4,5+ without crashing. Lux, Bryce, Vue, DS3A no problem.