Legacy Rigging - basic, nothing fancy. * New Tutorial Sept 2013* Also a Shoe tutorial

patience55

As I've been receiving some requests for legacy rigging, here goes.

To note, over time there have been released various utilities which would enhance the clothing making process for legacy rigging. I did not buy them. I'm not a merchant.
I did however, manage to figure out [with some help from folk most of whom appear to have left these forums] how to do some basic legacy rigging. I do have the basic Figure/Skeleton tools in D/S3A and of course the Content Creation tools in D/S4.x.

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Rule One:

In rigging clothing for the various figures, their bone structure is required. Under no circumstances is one to use the full figure .cr2s "unedited" to rig redistributable clothing. Actual one wouldn't want to for their own use either. The full figure takes long enough to load as it is, no need to have all their clothing doing the same thing lol ...

Okay ... so while they are still available, nab the "blanks" for V4 and M4 Link removed by OP because page no longer available.

The redistributable blanks for the older figures are AFAIK, no longer available. It is possible to make one's own.
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Information for modeling I'll keep to my main clothing thread unless something is pertinent for legacy rigging.

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Make a "dress dummy" of M4 and V4. Use a COPY of the main .obj file that is loaded when said figures are loaded into D/S. You'll find them in the Geometry folders. Unlike the "dress dummy" for Genesis, for this one you do want each body part to have its own colour.

Hexagon seems rather quirky about whether or not it'll keep or display materials so not to lose any sleep over the matter if one has to repeat the procedures every now and then.

patience55

First set of images ... for making a "dress dummy" or "mannikin" with which to model on in Hexagon or whichever modeling program you're using. I use Hexagon ....

patience55

Continuing ...

After image 10, when the Dress Dummy is 'all fixed and ready to be', export out the new Dress Dummy .obj file letting it to overwrite the first dress dummy that was made.

patience55

Now that one has a 'dress dummy', open Hexagon afresh and import it in. Colour whichever sections you want to as you please and "save" the project file. This would be the 'starter' project file. Next save would be an "incremental" one so it does not overwrite it.

Model something fairly simple and avoid the group seams where possible. There is a reason aside from purpose that so many clothing items are rather skimpy and broken up into parts such as tops with arm braces instead of long sleeved shirts.

patience55

There was an expression I heard once in some old movies ... don't recall the circumstances but at times it does seem like the correct thing to say. Not sure on the spelling, but it's something "oy vey"!!! What have they done!!! oh man ... okay ...

FORGET legacy rigging for clothing in D/S4.x Apparently they broke it.

In the Figure Setup tools, one "copies from selected" to get the bones.

Then in D/S3 one would "paste" to selected to get one's clothing turned into a clothing piece.

There doesn't appear to be any "paste to" options in 4.x and simply creating the item does not make for a wearable clothing piece.

patience55

Saved by Richard Haseltine!!! Thank you ;-)

Okay folks, we have to "Check the Modified Selected Figure box at bottom-left of the Figure setup pane". Then click create and it will happen.

While waiting for heat wave to cool, made a very interesting discovery with regards to making our own morphs for our clothing items in Legacy too.

patience55

For morphing legacy items ...

in D/S3 one requires the free script which is available from links posted here: Click here, archive page

For D/S4.x there doesn't appear to be a similar type script available.

[strike]However morphs can be save out a new .cr2 file which would hopefully contain the new morphs. My thanks to Bejaymac for this information.[/strike]
I tried this and it didn't work ... it maybe used to but not now :-(

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edit to update: Found a way in D/S4.6 ... certain setting that must be made then yes, we can export out morphs into a .cr2 file :-)

patience55

Okay I found a couple of the old tutorials I had made sometime back. They've been re-upped to my DA gallery.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25640/

I've stopped adding 'ghost bones' to any legacy rigging in D/S3 as when D/S4 first came out, there was apparently a problem or they caused a problem for those trying to adjust the clothing to Genesis.

However the basic 'how to' is pretty much the same between D/S3 and D/S4.x.

patience55

Legacy rigging for the older characters and/or other characters found in the wilds can be rather, challenging.

First, one does need to ascertain 'which' .obj the figure's .cr2 is calling for. A copy of that .obj is what one would make into a "clothing dummy" as illustrated above.

While 'blanks' may or not appear to be available to rig clothing for the older figures, they often still require some "tlc" [tender loving care] before a redistributable file is indeed had. We do NOT include "ik" information and NO morphs. A blank is "just" the bones of the figure required by the clothing.

There is a nice video tutorial "click here" for making one's own blank .cr2 file. Note that after knocking off the ik chains, "save the new blank .cr2" [start with a COPY of the original] ... and then open that with the morph editor utility [available here] and then save the file yet again.
The new blank file I ended up with had a pmd file to match it and a couple of references for it. I deleted both the pmd file and references, resaving yet again the blank ... and hopefully it's now usable for rigging redistributable clothing.

Here are a few images that hopefully clarify the point of 'why' we model to 'what'.

patience55

A3 is a very old figure and I can see why outfits for it are rather rare ... maybe somebody has mastered this but it is not I.

While I'm working on something which may or not ever see the light of day ... one huge tip ... "never" "reset pose" on the actual clothing item you are trying to fix the rigging of [as in for the creation of a new clothing piece]. On A3, this makes the sleeves drop down too low. Solution is to delete the dress [can't be fixed] and load "last saved" .cr2 to continue working on. While making your masterpiece, yes export out the occasional "interim" piece. Beats going back to square one everytime something unfixable happens.

Also for A3 anyway; it seems "ghost bones" are required in order for the clothing item to fit correctly at all.

Alternatives would be to retexture clothing items that work that you already have or make/use "skin clothing".
Or of course, save up for that new computer that can run D/S4.x and make use of Genesis and the iconic shapes ;-)

patience55

Discovered an interesting "work-a-round" to get morphs created for legacy clothing.

Need: D/S3 with the free script from DeltaX15, Hexagon AND D/S4.x

Minor glitch with discovery is that the morphed item with posed figure ... well it'll be great for stills! [not so great for animations]

Somewhere in the goodies from Aiko3 is supposed to be a blank .cr2 ... or one can make one.
I wouldn't recommend hoping to make a living doing these things.

Would love to quote a PA's comment from an ancient thread but not too sure that's a good idea these days.

So if anybody is interested ... go ahead and make some 'simple' items for Aiko3 [for eg.] and make the basic legacy rigging.

Then open D/S4.x, load Aiko3 [for eg.] and the new clothing item. Apply "fit to" and select the figure [i.e. Aiko3].
Send it to Hexagon VIA the Bridge.
From Hexagon export out the .obj file to any folder where you can find it easily later.
Close Hexagon.

Repeat for each pose that you want the clothing to be morphed for.

When ready ... close Hexagon and open D/S3. Load Aiko3 [for eg.] and the new clothing item [I'm using a skirt].
Select the clothing item and send it over the bridge to Hexagon.
Only the skirt should now be showing in Hexagon.

Then import in ONE of the posed files previously created.

Delete the 1st clothing item that is "as it loads" not posed [i.e. the new skirt] and "morph" the posed item [i.e. smooth out the unwanted bumps and jags] ... when ready, [validate to end tool actions], delete the Aiko3 [for eg.] figure ... [make sure the skirt [for eg] is selected in D/S3] then select the posed clothing piece and ship it back to D/S3 via the Bridge.

The dialogue should be there waiting for one to make the morph.
Pose the figure [i.e. Aiko3].
"Fit to NONE" the clothing piece and have the morph dialed up full.
It should be just fine now.
Select the skirt and run the inj/rem script found under Edit.

Make a .cr2 file for the clothing item that will load the morphs.

:-)

zee pictures will be in zee tutorial which is "almost" done.

patience55

Links retired.

patience55

Since publishing this tutorial, I'm aware that a few people were hoping I'd be releasing some new clothing items for A3. I was hoping too as well. Unfortunately some unknown factor has borked the FS tools in D/S3.

Legacy rigging in D/S4.0 is not possible as it doesn't weld the groups properly.

So I've upgraded the D/S4 to one that works better. [edited by me]

In reading through the forum, it appears that the solution to "how to we make/save morphs" to work in D/S4.x for our legacy items ....
are you ready?

.... is to use Poser.

Okay I have Poser. But somewhere along the line one has to draw the line and say "enough is enough".

According to instructions from somebody else's tutorial for how to uvmap in Hexagon, the answer being "get uvmapper".

You know ... it took a long time and a lot of reading and even more LOTS of "experience" [trial and error, you know, let's see what happens if....] I "think" I've got down pat how to use the uvmapping in Hexagon now, including pinning. And while I've toyed with the idea of putting together a complete tutorial dedicated to that one tool in Hexagon ... time is precious and can only be used once. This week was spent trying to get D/S3 up and running again WITH the FS tools.

Next week ... well I guess I'll open up Poser and see what happens.

Cheerio.

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edit: Good news ... found what had borked FS and it's now working again! Yes, it sure helps to check off the "read groups" box, doh ....

patience55

Okay :-)

It IS possible to make legacy clothing in D/S4.6 [I'm not using the beta].

And it IS possible to have morphs in them.

And it IS possible to have more than one morph in one .cr2.

And you would not believe the fuss it takes to find out the details and figure all this out.

But considering I didn't take a $35,000 course or whatever it is, not doing too badly.

One needs the blank.cr2 for the bones.
One needs the clothing mesh "all finished". All the tessellation, uvmaps, etc. all polished off and totally "done".

Then one makes the legacy clothing item.
In the tutorial I'm staying with a short skirt and A3.
Keep the skirt to the "long shorts" area ... some in the abdomen. Stay beneath the "chest" area for now.
Hopefully aiming for a successfully created short skirt by any and all who try this.

When the skirt is created AND saved [exported out as a .cr2], delete it from the scene and load the freshly created one.
Check the materials and fix them accordingly.
While the displacement is pointless for the .cr2, if wishing to use a bump map, load it on but remember that this is more for convenience later on. One won't have to hunt for it; just adjust the settings.
Possibly create a !default loading mat [stored not in the Runtime, but somewhere in a folder under My Library]

Remember to re-export out the otherwise unchanged .cr2 WITH the new materials IF you wish them to load instead of whatever whiteness first appeared.

Then for morphs.
Ha!
Alrighty ....

This takes awhile ... so take the time to "prepare stuff".
Presumably one is wishing to make more than one clothing piece for the one figure.
So load the desired figure, let's say A3.
Find the morph poses you have for her.
Dial in ONE of them.
Then OVER THE BRIDGE send her to Hexagon.
In Hexagon, export OUT this .obj file to a special folder in your Runtime > Geometries > your handle > private > Subfolder ....
Name it the same as the MORPH that was applied: i.e. FullFigure
Close Hexagon.
Back in D/S4.6 dial in ONE other morph for A3 [or whichever].
Then OVER THE BRIDGE ..... etc. until all the figure morphs that you may ever to wish to apply to your new clothing pieces are done.

Burbs, hiccups .... every now and then D/S4.6 may refuse to send anything over to Hexagon. Don't worry about it.
Close D/S4.6 ... Hexagon should already be closed.
Open D/S4.6 and carry on.
I did notice that having alternative surfaces on Aiko made this situation worse. So keep the pink lady.

When all that is done. Turn off the computer for awhile, walk the dog, feed the cat, have dinner, get some sleep.

Okay ....

In D/S4.6 have the options for interfacing with Hexagon on 'advanced'. We need the morph loader to appear when bridging back to D/S.

I do have images that are in the editing basket ... I would recommend waiting to do the morphs until they are posted but suit yourself [unless of course you really know what you're doing --- in which case when they are posted, corrections are welcome ;-) ]

The "what worked" workflow basically is to load the morphable figure [not a blank] and the good.cr2 clothing item. [make a backup copy but do not work from the backup copy] Fit the clothing item [i.e. skirt] to A3. Dial up the 1st morph in A3.
Select the skirt and send the skirt OVER THE BRIDGE to Hexagon.
Keep D/S OPEN.
In Hexagon, where one now has the skirt in the "fit to" position, also import in the relevant morphed A3 that was previously exported out. It should be filling out in the skirt the same as what one sees in D/S4.6.
FreezeA3.
Select the skirt and "gently" make the morph. A few taps with the relevant uvmapping/painting tool(s) should do the task.
VALIDATE.
Go to 'solid', unfreeze A3 and delete it.
Select the skirt and BRIDGE IT BACK to D/S4.6.
Returning to D/S4.6 one should find the morph loader dialogue box waiting.
IF you don't, IF it simply loaded the item as an .obj file ... then somehow the morph was not done correctly. Delete the .obj file, close Hexagon and repeat the steps above to send over the skirt.
Hopefully the Morph Loader dialogue box is waiting.
Make the morph.
DO NOT EXPORT OUT A NEW .CR2 FILE YET.
Dial the morph, see if it is 'done'.
{memory lapse here ... wait for pics}
Eventually we'll have a new .cr2 file with 'all' the new morphs in it.
For figures with a lot of figure morphs ... you might wish to make some practice pieces first to get the workflow down pat.

"Happy New Year" to those celebrating another year turn.
And of course, "Happy Birthday to the King" ;-)

patience55

it's "now or never", so "here it is"!

Enjoy. DA Link

Legacy Rigging in D/S4.6 including making morphs for your clothing.

A beginner's level type tutorial. Hopefully I didn't forget any vital steps. This walk through project was actually a series of projects patched into one.

starionwolf

Nice tutorial. I'd like to make my own clothes for the generation 3 figures too.

I assume that I need to make a skirt in Hexagon first and then save it as an .obj. The figure setup tools saves the information about the bones and joints in the cr2 file. So would I save the skirt obj and skirt.cr2 in the same folder? Essentially, we are copying the bone and joint information from Aiko 3 into the skirt.cr2. Mr. Richard H. or another moderator said something similar, but that was for Figure setup tools for Daz Studio 3. Or am I wrong?

Edit, never mind. I re-read the second to last post that you made. I need to create a skirt first. I was confused; for some odd reason I thought this was a tutorial on how to create a skirt from scratch. I missed the part about exporting the cr2 files and then loading it again via the Hexagon bridge.

edit #5: I should go make a skirt first then try following the tutorial. :) Thanks again.

patience55

starionwolf said:

Nice tutorial. I'd like to make my own clothes for the generation 3 figures too.

I assume that I need to make a skirt in Hexagon first and then save it as an .obj. The figure setup tools saves the information about the bones and joints in the cr2 file. So would I save the skirt obj and skirt.cr2 in the same folder? Essentially, we are copying the bone and joint information from Aiko 3 into the skirt.cr2. Mr. Richard H. or another moderator said something similar, but that was for Figure setup tools for Daz Studio 3. Or am I wrong?

Edit, never mind. I re-read the second to last post that you made. I need to create a skirt first. I was confused; for some odd reason I thought this was a tutorial on how to create a skirt from scratch. I missed the part about exporting the cr2 files and then loading it again via the Hexagon bridge.

edit #5: I should go make a skirt first then try following the tutorial. :) Thanks again.

Yes the skirt needs to be made first. This was just a basic A-line short skirt. High enough on the hip to have some face normals on the abdomen but stay beneath the 'chest' parts. And above the "thigh" shading domains.

Once made, "group" it ... need two groups, "abdomen" and "hip".
Needs to be saved or put into "your" geometry folder in Geometries under Runtime which is under My Library.

Eventually the saved .cr2 is exported out to "your" folder in the Character folder in the same Runtime.

In previous tutorials [either in this thread or over at DA] illustrate making a clothing model so the various groups are easy to see.
Also there's information on making a blank which is the one I'm using in this tutorial.
We may copy of the rigging from A3, but NOT the morphs etc, into clothing items.
Morphs must be those we've created ourselves. [although for some figures I recall seeing merchant resource utilities offered before the days of weight mapping and triax.]

.cr2 files are exported from D/S to save them into usable files.
They are not sent to Hexagon.
When one selects the .cr2 skirt and Bridges it over to Hexagon, D/S sends over an .obj file.
That .obj file is morphed and then returned to D/S over the bridge so the dialogue will happen to create the morph.

There are also more modeling tips in my other clothing thread here.

patience55

Have put together the images from the previous forum into a .pdf

Information covers legacy rigging of Shoes :-)

link retired