Tips on first real project?
Trying to recreate the included pic. Feel like I'm way off. I'm using the Genesis figure. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
My thoughts, I need different hair, need to change the eyelash color too. Should I use one of the other kid figures? Seems like Genesis basic child may still look older than a 3yo. Either way, I'm having a hard time getting face structure right.
Thanks all,
JSG.jpg
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Post edited by HitManWA on
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I think you're off to a good start here, especially with regards to the nose and eyes. I think you're right about Genesis Basic Child's age...I'd say about four or five. As such, Basic Child's nose and chin are too big, and the cheeks not quite puffy enough for a typical three-year-old. The shape of the child's face in your picture is rather different...much less round. That can be challenging to correct...I've worked on child characters myself and struggled with the same thing. What morph sets are you using here?
The expression is a bit different, too...especially in the lips.
As far as the hair is concerned, you might consider K-Nicky Hair for Genesis...looks pretty close, although the hairline is different.
Hi Scott,
I bought the Genesis Michael Victoria Combo Bundle so I have the evolution morph sets. Been trying to get the mouth to curve down more, the chin needs work and the cheeks are off. I'll look at some of the other morph sets, haven't tried that yet.
Thanks so much for the reply, I really appreciate it.
There's a lot you can tweak that you haven't frankly- without going to other morphs.
The area under the nose Philtrum can be adjusted more as the child has a slight downward philtrum (so you need to increase that slightly) and you really need to increase the lips upper curve- try .43 as your top lip (think the bottom line where it connects to the bottom lip when the mouth is closed) is almost straight across.
The lacrimals of the eyes I THINK need pinching more, and the puffiness above the eyes needs to be increased. Start with those to experiment *Smiles* EDIT: Use almond inner and outer to get the ends of the eyes shaped a bit differently. You have the end of the nose too rounded, try nose pinch.
And btw, what an ADORABLE child!
Thanks Novica, I really appreciate the tips. I'll definately make those adjustments and thanks for the compliment, too. I'll post where I'm at a bit later, def a learning curve but fun.
Read your Baby's First Bug thread, very enjoyable and informational.
This is where I'm at. Made the changes you suggested. I do have Gen Morph Kits 1-4.
Thanks for the help,
Coming along nicely! Now let's look at the nostrils. Well, this is going to be fun to try and describe- I think of the nostrils as the hole part, but it's the entire skin area covering the hole, so where I'm now referring to is going to be the TOP of each nostril- not the top of the hole- it needs to come down. I'll go find the setting. In other words, your nostrils (not talking about the hole part) need to be less tall, and more horizontal. Thinner and wider.
Oops, well, I'm in the middle of a render which is going to be a few hours, so I"m stuck. I'll see if I can do a quickie drawing for you. Back in awhile.
Cathie
PS- Another thing that will help you- turn your model EXACTLY the same way as your photo when you make the adjustments. Looking at it straight on is harder as you don't get the depth. But having the model face the exact same direction will really make a difference for you.
Okay, don't laugh. I would much rather sketch it out for you than try and manipulate a mouse and draw when I have a himalayan cat cuddled next to my mouse- but she's too comfy to move. Anyway, if we start with the eyes- they still need to be a bit more elongated in my opinion (but again, that's from THIS view) and still tilted down just a TAD.
I put an arrow on the nose showing you where the nostril needs to flatten out and go horizontal. Then, the nostril (nose hole) will need to be angled and maybe widened- can't tell from the front shot. Can you do a screenshot, getting the model in the same position as the child?
Okay, lips- definitely have to have higher/more curves in the middle. It's too flat. And that middle line (the bottom line of the top lip still needs more curve IMO. Not sure if the bottom lip needs more fullness but perhaps a touch (again, need to see more of a side view)
These are all nit-picky *smile*
EDIT: those dotted lines on the chin- wondering if more of an inset is needed there. Again, more of a side view would let us know.
If you have it adding just a touch of the Hiro 4 for Genesis head shape might help for the over all shape.
Thanks for all the great suggestions. Working on making the adjustments and I'll post the update a bit later. I really appreciate all the help.
Latest, still working on the nose. Top lip needs to be thinner maybe? Tried to get the angle the same as the pic, still a bit off.
Like the work on the eyes, and the curve of the lip (where it meets the bottom lip) The nose- hmmm, went bigger? Try any of the "pinch" settings, and test the "heart" face to see if it poofs out the cheek a bit. If that doesn't, go to the cheek settings and get it a bit more rounded so that from that view, you're seeing more of a round curve going out. Darn you- every time you post, I'm in the middle of a render and can't get in to my studio to see the settings, lol!
Your actual nostrils (nose holes) will also have a pinch. The right nostril (as we LOOK at it) for example- where the hole is, at about the 1 and 2 o' clock area of the hole- the skin to the right of it needs to be pinched down. Anyone who can get in their studio who can tell the setting? I'll be back in a few with another of my famous drawings. (lol)
Okay, I EXAGGERATED the nose so you can see the SHAPE you are going for. Here we go- (let me post the image first so I have something I can look at using "Review Thread." So folks following this thread, you'll need to click and surf in or you won't see the comments as edits don't get sent in emails. )
EDIT- never mind, posted separately.
Okay, I have two windows open.
Let's start at the top. The lacrimals are pinched too much, you have the right "tilt" in my opinion, you just closed them up a bit much. So undo the lacrimal pinch (not sure if that's the name of it, can't check.) Next, the nose- quite a honker you got on there, lol! For the tip of the nose, find the setting that reduces the bulb of the nose (not the height, you got that right IMO) You want the "ball" of the nose to be smaller.
The nostrils- I exaggerated the red lines to show you the tilt of the nostrils (skin) is wrong. When you narrow the ball of the nose (do that first) some of this may work itself out, but you'll need to get an angle going like what I drew on the right (the top of the nostril, skin) Then see where it connects to the nose? That is a SHARP ending to the nostril (skin) You have it too broad and flat.
Pull the (oh dear, mind went blank) thingie in the middle of the nose separating the two nostrils- is it septrum? Or is that the line below the nose? Anyway, the part of the nose between the holes can be pulled down a tad. I didn't draw it because it would be too cluttered.
You need to change the angle of your jaw line- tighten it up by reducing the volume of the face- it's too chubby. This kid has a very "hard" jawline. Work with the jaw angle setting by FIRST using either your heart face or square face setttings- square is the one that may fix the chin so far as width, but heart (I think, can't get into my studio) will make it longer and may help your cheek poof out a bit. Go to cheek settings and try to get the cheeks out- but I would do the jaw FIRST.
Ta-duh, eh?
I think you're my pet project, lol. And then we'll work on hair.
Wow, hair is going to be a bit difficult. You have the one Scott-L recommended, and I just went through my entire library of hair (7 pages-) and this one is the only one that comes close. I'd be curious to see if it has a bangs option to tweak one side more than the other, and what can be done with the sides. It's Platinum Club- are you a member? It also has colors available. (I didn't check which ones came with it.)
I haven't looked through the hair section- this is just from the hundreds that I have.
EDIT: I can't find curly bangs with curly hair unless it is ULTRA short.
http://www.daz3d.com/meg-hair
This is where I am atm. Still working onit as I can and using all your suggestions. Thanks a ton by the way and, I don't mind being your project. ;) Working on the nose still, learning so much from you.
Yes, I'm a platinum member and I'll check the hair out.
Okay, game on- I am NOT rendering and will experiment with just the gray genesis.
eyelids heavy- fine.
eyelids lower height should be a negative number- yours has too much deep "circles" under the eye. What's your setting?
That in combination with the Eyes Puffy Lower can tweak that. Use both.
Let's soften the eyelids line- go to eyelids smooth and play with that- try above .50 (I don't want to tell you the optimum setting because then this wouldn't be your render)
Eyelids top in height- INCREASE that- it's the opposite of what you think. You need to bring down over there by the lacrimals. Increasing it will lower the lid by the inside corners of the eye by the nose.
Do you have a negative eye angle? The eyes don't seem "straight across" level- try .062 and see what that does on your model.
I think your eye height inner is close, but I'm curious as to that setting. If anything, take it toward 1.0. We're not messing with the eye size, we have to get the shape right first.
For lacrimal pinch, try -.50 The higher the number (toward 1.0) the less pinch, and we need to open it up.
Your main culprit is the eyelids bottom out height. Set it to 1.0 if you don't have it there. Your bottom eyelid is too curvy, it needs to level out. Right now it dips down.
And don't do any of this that you don't want to- if you change it and don't like it , ignore me! *smile* All I have is a gray thing to play with so yours will do differently.
The nose-
Nose Bridge Depth- need to sink that sucker. -.50 at least. Can't tell about it's height until you sink it. Appears to be okay. It lines up with the lacrimals.
Nose Bridge Slope- do you have it at least .70?
Nose Bridge Width- Are you in the -.20 to the .034 range? Until you fix the slope, I'm not sure which way to go.
The changes you made to the nose were very good- quite a nice difference. Let's do the eyes and just these few things first.
Looking much better! Especially the mouth.
I agree with Novica on two of the main issues: eyelids (particularly Lower Out Height) and the depth of the nose. I also think the overall size/scale of the lower face is too big...maybe dial up Face Young?
Added some young face and made the other changes.
eyelids lower height was positive now it's -.50
eye angle was negative now it's .065
eye height inner is at .20
nose bridge slop is at .60 right now, I keep getting a crease above the tip so I'm sure I'm missing a setting somewhere.
nose bridge width is at -.15
If anything I'm really picking on up what to look for. Y'all are seeing things I haven't seen and th I'm realizing small changes make a big difference and that I shouldn't be going from 0-.50-1.00 and so on.
Headed out the door so can't play at the moment- but is this a render or spot render? Sometimes in a spot a crease will show up and not be there when rendered.
Really quick though- the temple has a dip IN. As you are looking at it, on your left- look at the picture, by the eyebrow.
Also, those shadows under the eye just seem to have been moved down, not filled in. Experiment with that setting (eyelids lower height should be a negative number- yours has too much deep “circles” under the eye.)
Okay, so what have you done lately? I almost lost this thread as it's getting buried, lol! I figured I just stopped getting notices- sometimes the forum does that.
Novica, I been keeping up on this post and you are putting some serious work into it. So please don't take my feedback to negatively, but rather as a point to achieve some accuracy. I think this is an effort working with sliders on a morph however if you still have room to adjust values on those slider ui controls I would like add my perspective.
Look at the child's Zygomatic bone and compare them between the real pic and the render. The render shows the bone too far below the eyes sockets and just a tad bit wide. If you can narrow the cheek bone (zygomatic bone) just a tad and raise it toward the eye sockets, I think you will achieve accuracy. It will make the cranium appear a little more narrow over all which will contribute toward accuracy too. Also raising the zyogmatic bone will hopefully create a narrower "V" shape for the mandible unless there are separate ui control sliders for that.
Just my opinion and wanted to help out.
You are doing a great job let me tell you. I tried same thing when messing around with Sims 2 game in attempt to reproduce Hollywood actors and politicians. Some worked out great others had features which the ui controls could not adjust enough for accuracy.
You also might consider investing in zBrush and sculpting the child into a custom mesh, then you would total control and end up with a brand new morph. Keep up the wonderful work you are doing.
Hopefully the person doing the child will pop in and read your suggestions *smile* I was rather hoping some other folks WOULD pop in and help steer them along- join the party! Now if we can get the OP back.... maybe I scared them off...