Getting rid of bumpy skin--looks somewhat like orange peel

wsgentry

Is there a way to get rid of the bumpy sking on the figure in the attachment using the stock textures and settings?  Thanks in advance!

Edit: Had to reduce the file size in order to post it.  Zoom on it, then look at the exposed shoulder.  :)

Scott

wsgentry

Mods,

If this is not the appropriate sub-forum for this post, please let me know and I will repost there.

Thanks,

Scott

wsgentry

In the attachment, I have a rendering of a female.  On the female's shoulder, the skin appears very bumpy--like really bad orange peel.  Is there some parameter or something I can use or do to eliminate the bumpiness?  You may have to zoom to see it, but it's there. 

Thanks in advance,

Scott

Illidanstorm

I'd contact Daz about it because it seems to be not intended like this.

You can also remove it yourself by evening it out in the bump, displacement and/or normal map using gimp or photoshop. 

Richard Haseltine

wsgentry said:

Mods,

If this is not the appropriate sub-forum for this post, please let me know and I will repost there.

Thanks,

Scott

Please don't repost, just edit the first post and select the desired forum there.

You might check to see if there is a preset to djust bump strength for close ups.

wsgentry

Thanks, Richard and Illidanstorm.  I'm rendering it again with the normal skin bump set to zero (default was three).  I'll post results.

Scott

nonesuch00

In the Surfaces tab for the character reduce for all the skin texture surfaces the bump slider setting to be 1/2 it's current value. Render and repeat as needed.

However, but some of that can it can be caused by normal or displacement settings in Surfaces too but those almost always don't but check anyway if they have maps and what them maps look like so you'll have a good ideal.

wsgentry

I did the lower the Normal bump value by halves and render thing.  At .45 (default was 3) I got ridges and small almost evenly spaced raised dark spots.  I think this is a problem with the Delilah product, but I'm not sure.

Edit, for the raised dark spots, this appears to be on a seam in the texture.  I can't see the bumps in the .jpg for the arms and the torso, so I'm thinking this is something the author of the product needs to look at.  It's a DAZ Originals Mousso product, so I'm thinking I'll get support. 

Edit:  I've submitted a ticket for this.

Scott

nonesuch00

wsgentry said:

I did the lower the Normal bump value by halves and render thing.  At .45 (default was 3) I got ridges and small almost evenly spaced raised dark spots.  I think this is a problem with the Delilah product, but I'm not sure.

Edit, for the raised dark spots, this appears to be on a seam in the texture.  I can't see the bumps in the .jpg for the arms and the torso, so I'm thinking this is something the author of the product needs to look at.  It's a DAZ Originals Mousso product, so I'm thinking I'll get support. 

Edit:  I've submitted a ticket for this.

Scott

Gloss maybe. I have a texture set too for G8M that has way too strong a bumpiness on the face such that parts of the face don't look human in close ups. 

Oso3D

Maybe increase the subdivision?

wsgentry

Thanks nonesuch and Oso3D.   Support has said it looks like a lighting problem.  I did two renders with room-based emissives only, at two different color temperatures, and the orange peel was still there.  I've uploaded them to the ticket. 

I can try subdivisions.   Thank you!

It's very odd.  I've had it before with a third party product.  I'll try glossyness, too.  

To me, it's almost like the light is going through the skin, bouncing off the first reflective layer then getting caught in a loop. 

Also, the orange peel is much worse on the joint between the arm and torso textures. 

Scott

Linwelly

which character skin are you using there?

wsgentry

Character is Delilah G8, skin is what comes with the character.  I've tried it with the EcVh0 skin sets which work. 

I've also tried rendering with varying color temps; attached is that result.

Scott

Linwelly

Sorry I don't own that character or I would have tested it

wsgentry

Linwelly said:

Sorry I don't own that character or I would have tested it

Thanks for checking.  Support was able to duplicate the problem but they appear to be passing it off as acceptable.  I’ve asked if they’ve contacted Mousso as I find it hard to believe this texture is by design.

agent unawares

wsgentry said:

Linwelly said:

Sorry I don't own that character or I would have tested it

Thanks for checking.  Support was able to duplicate the problem but they appear to be passing it off as acceptable.  I’ve asked if they’ve contacted Mousso as I find it hard to believe this texture is by design.

Which problem, specifically? The bump is the way it is just because the texture is set up to render from a distance. If it's too strong turn it down to 1 (my preference) or turn it off. Those jaggy dark spots are not a texture problem, they are a geometry problem as Will said, and they will go away or lessen considerably with higher subdivision.

You can play around with SSS values to considerably blur any feature you want, if you like to do that. You can push Iray way past the waxy look of old Poser setups even.

Lighting will also affect the way bump appears; it will both exaggerate and minimize it depending. How are you lighting your scene?

wsgentry

agent unawares said:

wsgentry said:

Linwelly said:

Sorry I don't own that character or I would have tested it

Thanks for checking.  Support was able to duplicate the problem but they appear to be passing it off as acceptable.  I’ve asked if they’ve contacted Mousso as I find it hard to believe this texture is by design.

Which problem, specifically? The bump is the way it is just because the texture is set up to render from a distance. If it's too strong turn it down to 1 (my preference) or turn it off. Those jaggy dark spots are not a texture problem, they are a geometry problem as Will said, and they will go away or lessen considerably with higher subdivision.

You can play around with SSS values to considerably blur any feature you want, if you like to do that. You can push Iray way past the waxy look of old Poser setups even.

Lighting will also affect the way bump appears; it will both exaggerate and minimize it depending. How are you lighting your scene?

I have changed bump to zero.  I have changed sub divisions.  I have lit the scene many different ways with the last render I posted being with only stock emissives as included in the set.  In short, I’ve done everything that has been suggested except accepting this is normal. I don’t accept it as normal because there was no disclaimer stating the character was good for anything but closeup renders.

i hope you understand my point, because as it stands now, what started off as a fun experiment to see if I could duplicate a movie still, has turned into something else.

Scott

agent unawares

wsgentry said:

agent unawares said:

wsgentry said:

Linwelly said:

Sorry I don't own that character or I would have tested it

Thanks for checking.  Support was able to duplicate the problem but they appear to be passing it off as acceptable.  I’ve asked if they’ve contacted Mousso as I find it hard to believe this texture is by design.

Which problem, specifically? The bump is the way it is just because the texture is set up to render from a distance. If it's too strong turn it down to 1 (my preference) or turn it off. Those jaggy dark spots are not a texture problem, they are a geometry problem as Will said, and they will go away or lessen considerably with higher subdivision.

You can play around with SSS values to considerably blur any feature you want, if you like to do that. You can push Iray way past the waxy look of old Poser setups even.

Lighting will also affect the way bump appears; it will both exaggerate and minimize it depending. How are you lighting your scene?

I have changed bump to zero.  I have changed sub divisions.  I have lit the scene many different ways with the last render I posted being with only stock emissives as included in the set.  In short, I’ve done everything that has been suggested except accepting this is normal.

If you turn bump to zero, the "orange peel" completely goes away. Are you sure you tried this?

wsgentry

Yes, I have.  It goes away, but the brown bumps show up, and yes, I adjusted subdivisions to see if the bumps went away, too.   The happier medium I came up with was .45 on the normal bumps. 

I'm trying a render again with the figure framed as it was in the movie still--no dress or shoulders to see what happens.  The figure is also in the most appropriate position for the background of the still given restrictions of the scene I chose.

Thank you for your time.  I appreciate it, sincerely.

Scott

agent unawares

Which brown bumps? These? If so I tell you, this is definitely a geometry issue that pops up with Iray and will be mitigated by higher subdivision level. If 2 levels does not quite work, try 3.

I can render her with completely smooth shoulder skin, so I think we should be able to get her to work in your scene even if it takes more tweaking.

wsgentry

Kinda, but you also have jagged shadow transitions, no?

Scott

I've attached the original photo--what I'm going after.

I've got a render going on now.  I'll kill it and do as you suggest.

agent unawares

I don't have jagged shadow transitions. This is at render subdivision 3. But you know what there really is a problem with the seams of the bump maps. I don't know if it's exactly what you were seeing, but it is a problem. Like halfway down her shoulder the scale of the bump abruptly goes from large to small.

 

Anyway, here's what I get with no bump, the orange peel is totally gone and her skin is smooth:

 

And this is what happens when I add the normal to that. A completely new problem, the normal is not lining up with itself at the top of the shoulder. I have a suspicion these were not baked properly as they do not look like "normal" normals, with apologies to Mousso.

 

I am pretty disappointed by this. I can resolve the problem of being too bumpy and the jagged shadows but there are other problems definitely part of the texture maps. I have a lot of Mousso's girls and I really hope I don't have to start checking them all for stuff like this within the return window.

wsgentry

You nailed it.  It's exactly what I saw when I changed settings originally.  Issue with the "bumps" or "orange peel" does go away with the bump set to 0.  I'm re-rendering with the settings you mention.   Support and you are correct:  Lighting affects this greatly, however I tested with the default lighting in the main viewport (and no other stuff) and saw the problem. 

I have a lot of Mousso's stuff, too.   Like I wrote in the ticket, I'm surprised this slid through.  His characters are normally quite stunning in detail and close-ups.  No disrespect if you read this, Mousso. 

Now if I could come up with blunt-cut Bob hair for G3 or G8, it'd be golden.  I do intend to sharpen the jaw line a bit, too.  This texture thing really got me off track. 

Thank you so much!

Scott

agent unawares

I see it on a couple others I checked too. Frustration. At least this is just an arm seam and not somewhere detailed that it would be really hard to deal with in post.

wsgentry

That's a shame Agent.  Mousso's stuff is usually top of the line.  I have also seen this problem on characters purchased from the other site by other authors.  I have a render going right now--if I let run to completion it will be another four or five hours (because it's a relatively close shot, I have tweaked the render settings) even with a 1080ti.  What I'm seeing is the shoulder is perfect now.  The jawline in shadows shows some roughness, but I suspect as the render goes on, it will smooth out.  We'll see.

Perhaps support will contact Mousso?  I hope they do.

Scott

wsgentry

Here's a partial render with the settings you gave me.  It's pretty good.  Thank you!

Scott

agent unawares

I'm glad it worked out.

Richard Haseltine

If you are seeing issues with the normal maps not aligning please open Techncial Support tickets for them.

agent unawares

I would, but out of the six character texture error tickets I've submitted, one PA item was fixed, four DAZ Originals came back as "we're not going to fix this," and one DAZ Original supposedly got sent to the bug tracker where it now waits in limbo. It doesn't appear to be worth my time filling out the form, which legitimately takes longer to do than fixing most errors myself, and about as long as just requesting a refund.

wsgentry

You might be interested that the full render I did overnight had brown blotches on the neck! :). Too much time spent?

Scott

wsgentry

I want to apologize for any misunderstanding regarding this issue.   I have had a post removed because it was claimed the post was inaccurate and misleading.  While I contend it was neither, I do realize that venting publicly over things for which I have no control is unacceptable.