Ryzen + AMD GPU, how to setup the options properly? 3Delight
Hello!
It's the first time that I'm using a program for 3D assets. Until now I only used Spine and Photoshop, so this is kind of overwhelming for me. I have been reading a lot of information, but I'm still a bit lost with some questions, and how to setup Daz Studio for an AMD computer (and probably for any other computer).
I have a Ryzen R7 1700, and a RX 580, 16 GB RAM @ 3000 MHz. I'm using the 3Delight render because the Iray takes ages and freeze my computer (I read is because my GPU doesn't help, all the effort goes to the CPU).
The questions are:
1) Auto headlamp. What is this? Should I leave it in the default setting "when no scene lights"?
2) Progressive Rendering. What is this? Should I leave it in the default "Off"? Well, actually I have read that it uses a lot of RAM and make the program to crash, but this is old information, but I'm scared to change this. If someone can give more information here I would apreciate it!
3) Bucket Order? I got it in horizontal. I read that this option doesn't matter, is that true? On the other hand I have the Bucket Size at 96, I think I'll make it bigger since my RAM usage is at 70-85%.
4) Max Ray Trace Depth. I have it at 3. I read it's recommended at 2 (I just set it to 3 to see if I could see any different, but I have no idea what I'm doing here). Is 2 ok? The higher the better, or is not worth it to rise the number much?
5) Pixel Samples X and Y, I got them at 16. Following some forums I think this is fine, but again, I have no idea what I'm doing. Should I leave it at 12?
6) Shadow Samples. Is the higher number the better quality? I got this at 20, no idea why :P
7) Gain. I read is better not to touch this, but why?
8) Gamma Correction. Since I'm doing the tutorials, for me is better not to touch this, or everything is super super dark.
9) Gamma. I set this to 1.25, I like this result. Is there any better number, or is just a matter of opinion?
10) Shading Rate. I left this at 0.020, it takes a while to render, but I love the result. At 0.010 is insane the amount of time per tile. Do you think for a professional use is a good idea to leave this a 0.010? Is it better to leave this in a higher number?
11) Pixel Filter. Sadly this is the less documented area for the 3Delight (also the info that I found about this is old, and with different names). By default is in Sinc, is this the best option? Box looks super blur for me, and I want to try the other options.
12) Pixel Filter Width X and Y. I have no idea what is this for. Is the higher the better quality, or the lower?
Well, I guess this thread can help to any no AMD user, but since the GPU makes a different, maybe a Ryzen could be different here too, so I just wanted to be sure.
Thanks in advance for any help!
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EDIT: I decided to leave the pictures in a link. I don't want to drain any plan data if you are using your phone, and I don't want you to scroll for ages this comment. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I think this is the better solution.
Some research using the Elf tutorial. I wanted to render UHD photos, but since it took a lot of time, I changed it to 800*450, but then the image was too small. So Full HD will make it.
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 20, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 6. Gamma Correction: Off, Gamma: 1.25.
Render: 3Delight, 21 minutes, resolution: Full HD.
https://i.imgur.com/aZ7j2dq.png
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 20, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20.
Render: 3Delight, 22 min, Full HD.
The quality improvement is almost no visible. @ 32 I can't see any improvement, also the same rendering time.
https://i.imgur.com/81IInhB.png
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 40, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20.
Render: 3Delight, 40 mi, Full HD.
No improvement, almost the double of rendering time. I'm not uploading the picture, is the same.
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 10, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20.
Render: 3Delight, 12 min, Full HD.
I can't detect any pixel changed comparing with the 40 and 20 Shadow Samples images. I read before that 4 is a good number for this setting, and I'm starting to see why. The rendering time is much better now.
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20.
Render: 3Delight, 7 min, Full HD.
I can find some pixeles different if there is any area with many shadows, but you have to zoom a lot and I can't say which has better quality. Only 7 min to render, is great!
https://i.imgur.com/EGvUu9h.png
Until now I was using Gamma 1.25 with Gamma Correction Off. I have seen many post talking about setting Gamma to 2.20 with the correction on. Here we go:
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 7 min, Full HD.
I guess this is a matter of opinion, I can't say which is better, can you?
https://i.imgur.com/zLwwZuU.png
Now, I'm going to check the Pixel Filters for 3Delight. By default all the experiments here were made with: Sinc.
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Box, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 6.5 min, Full HD.
I can see some blurriness here and there
https://i.imgur.com/3BnFxlP.png
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Triangle, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 6.5 min, Full HD.
Less blurriness. I don't know if I'm using this well, is this supposed to be like this?
https://i.imgur.com/STOVjkm.png
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Catmull-Rom, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 6.5 min, Full HD.
I can see is less sharp than using Sinc. The rendering time is lower, but I prefer Sinc (unless I'm using this wrong).
https://i.imgur.com/idlMY2k.png
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Gaussian, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 6.5 min, Full HD.
Another blurry filter (or another misuse).
https://i.imgur.com/q9Qz7wC.png
Finally, the UHD version. I love that you can see some skin imperfections if you zoom in. Watching this picture with my 2K screen is marvelous.
· Settings: Max Ray Trace Depth: 3, Pixel Samples X Y: 16, Shadow Samples: 4, Shading Rate: 0.020, Pixel Filter: Sinc, Pixer Filter Width X Y: 20. Gamma Correction: ON, Gamma: 2.20.
Render: 3Delight, 23 min, UHD.
https://i.imgur.com/TH5XLzA.jpg
Do you want to try this scene? Here is the .duf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qogfcjkr3rp8zzm/Elf%203Dlight.duf?dl=0
1) this is an issue if you light your scene with soemthing that won't be seen as a light - in 3Delight most of those load with a dummy light that will block the headlamp (a light shining from the cmera position) anyway.
2) Progressive isn't the memory hog it was initially. It is faster for complex lighting, but more prone to noise.
3) Largely cosmetic, though I believe the default is slightly faster
4) Every time a ray reflects or passes through a refractive surface it uses up a bounce - once it runs out it just returns the current colour. Too low can lead to unexpected results (especially with glass objects turning black isntead of showing what is behind them) but too high slows the render down - 2 or 3 should be safe for most things.
5) and 6) are quality settings, higher is better buit slower. You may need to turn Shadow samples up is using soft shadows, samples may need to go up if there's noise
7) a brightness setting, as far as I recall
8) and 9) 8 removes the gamma applied in editing to texture maps, 9 sets the correct applied to renders. If you leave 9 at 1 you will get quite dark renders, if you set it to 2.2 then you want Gamma Correction on or all your maps will effectively be double-corrected and will look washed out.
10) is another quality setting, it essentially is a value in pixels and cotnrols how many rays are used for each pixel - lower (more rays) is better but slower.
11) and 12) do have an effect on how the rays are combined, if you aren't using progressive mode, but I tend to leave it alone - experiment and see if you are sensitive to the differences.
Thanks for your time to explain me all these questions!
1) I think I'll have to try this option and see what happens. As a newbie I can't see what you mean, but I think with a small render I'll get it.
2) I don't want any noise, so 'll leave it off, thanks!
4) I see, thanks for your explanation!
5 and 6) Thanks, I think is it possible to see what you see in the second comment.
7) Well, I won't touch this setting.
8 and 9) Thanks for explaining me this, For now I'm not sure if I want it at 1.25 Off, or On 2.20, but I guess is a matter of opinion.
10) I see. Using it at 0.020 gives a good result, but using it at 0.010 (the minimum) doesn't make a great diference, but takes x2 or x4 times to render it. I guess 0.020 is good for me, and maybe 1 to make a quick proof.
11 and 12) In the firt comment I left some images with each filter. I have no idea if I did something wrong, but it seems that the default is the better.
Thanks again for your help! This forum lacks a karma system, I wish I could give you a thump up
Hi! A few additional thoughts about your render settings:
As Richard said, default is fine.
You can use progressive to do fast testrenders when setting up your scene, and in the case of having a LOT of reflective/refractive surfaces, such as water, mirrors, metal etc. it will render much faster than the default mode, however pixelfilters are disabled (also shading rate) in progressive mode (using the box filter at 1x1) so it can give you jagged edges or noise in some cases. Depending on your workflow it can be a useful tool, and noise can be delt with in a postprocessing app like PS or GIMP.
In some cases a size of 8 can render faster. Feel free to experiment;) I have it at spiral and 64. That way I see faster what's happening in the center of the render.
You can leave it at 1 for renders that don't have any reflective surfaces. Keep it as low as possible or it will increase render times. 4 is overkill for most scenes.
10x10 is fine for most scenes. They will have an inpact on depth of field so if you want a heavily blurred background you might want to set thm a bit higher. I usually start at 8x8, works well for most things I do. Again upping these values will increase render times.
If you use the DS standard lights (distant, spot, pointlight etc) they have an inpact on shadow quality. For sharp shadows a nuber of 4 will do, if you use softer shadows, then set it to 16 or more. They have no inpact on other lights like the AoA advanced lights.
As Richard said, leave it at 1.
I strongly recommend that you set gamma correction on and gamma to 2.20, google linear workflow. With those settings DS will correctly calculate every pixel value.
Your settings are definitely overkill:) Well go ahead if you have the time and patience, but 0.1 will be fine for everything you want to render IMO.
Just experiment;) I use gaussian at 1.5x1.5 or catmull-rom at 2x2. Sinc can cause artifacts if setting width to more than maybe 7x7
Upping these numbers work as noise reduction, making for a more blurred render, so if you want it sharp, don't overdo it!
ETA: If you want to dig deep into 3DL, here is the thread where all the hardcore people meet and discuss 3DL. 89 pages, pretty extensive but well worth the time if you are serious about learning the outs and ins of 3DL;)
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/55128/3delight-laboratory-thread-tips-questions-experiments/p1
Wow, that discussion looks gorgous, thanks for sharing the link, and thank you very much for your help :)
I'm trying to "play" with the Gaussian filter, but everything is super blurry. What do you mean with 1.5x1.5?
No problem:) I simply mean set the pixel filter width to x=1.5, y=1.5
@ gperezcam
Looking at your edited post with the renders I see you have the pixel filter width at 20x20, that's a LOT. Try to keep numbers between 2x2 to 7x7 depending on the filter being used and you'll be fine:)
Nice looking scene by the way! Happy rendering!
Oh, I see I was overexcited with the pixel filter width haha. Thanks again for your help!
About the scene, is one of the in-app tutorial. Now I'm rendering something that I made by myself, but in 45 minutes it has rendered only 3%. I guess I messed something. I don't know why but the CPU is only at 75-80% when it was always at 99-100%, and the RAM is at 51% when ussualy is at 75-90%. I still need to learn a lot.
For a proof, is the Shadig rate @ 2 a good? Until now I was ussing 0.020, but now that I'm using lights, 0.020 was too much for a proof. I'm using 1 right now, wondering if 2 or higher will be fine
I personally find shading rate at 1 is too high, and with 2 you won't get a very sharp render. Also shadows can get all kinds of artifacts. Try keeping it at 0.2 - 0.5, as a rule of thumb. I almost always render at 0.1. It depends a lot on what kind of lights you use. With the Ds standard lights 0.5 should be fine in most cases. There are also the dz shader lights (free with DS), found in your content library/lights/ds default IIRC. With them you can set shadow samples independently for every light, they override the shadow sample settings in the render pane. And their shadows look kinda cool IMO. Also search in the store for the AoA advanced lights, they use a very different shading method and render very fast.
I guess for learning 1 is fine (otherway with a beginner's mistakes it will take ages to render haha). I had put a red light which was making the rendering impossible. After 1 night with the computer on, when I came back it was at 12%. Removing that red light was a miracle, only 8 minutes (with shading rate at 2 out of desperation). The scene had 1 red light, 1 blue, and some pre-made lights. Now my renders are about 30-60min with 0.20. I have to learn a lot, but I can see some improvement step by step :)
If anyone know any good tutorial about lights (or any tutorial that anyone consider good is going to be a great sugestion for me. Also, if you have a favourite youtuber who posts tutorials please share it here) I would apreciate the link!