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Daz -> iClone -> Daz?

rames44rames44 Posts: 329
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I've seen lots, both here and elsewhere, about taking Daz characters over to iClone and animating and rendering them there.  (Including all the links in the sticky topic in this forum.)

Does the iClone pipeline support bringing animated Daz characters back into Daz to be rendered there?  In other words, export to iClone, animate, re-import into Daz, render there as an animation sequence?

Comments

  • davegvdavegv Posts: 164

    Yes, You can export animation from iclone back to Daz3d useing either FBX or BVH animation. I have both IClone 7 and Autodesk Motionbuilder 2017 and I will say that the Daz to Motionbuilder - back to Daz is smooth once you learn the specifics. I have Character Templates ( Motionbuilder ) for all Genesis figures thru Genesis 3 and Yes, Genesis 8 will work as well. I was very disappointed in the IClone workflow - I just spent way to much time trouble shooting problems. But for others it seems to work... Motionbuilder is a much more professional animation tool than IClone.. I actually go from Daz3d - Motionbuilder ( Characterize and apply animation ) then send it to 3DS Max for VRay rendering Or IRay+ For 3DS Max. 

    This might give you a start:

  • rames44rames44 Posts: 329

    Thanks. Motion builder is just too far out of my price range. iClone is a stretch, but doable. Do you know of any full end-to-end tutorials for the Daz-iClone-Daz workflow for Genesis 3 or 8?

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828
    edited February 2018

    Hi I use Iclone pro 6.5 pipeline to import Daz Rigs and apply animation to them and export custom BVH back to Daz
    Iclone 3Dxchange already has Daz genesis templates built in to Characterize imported genesis figure for Imotion retargeting
    and Exporting Custom BVH back to Daz

    One thing you need to consider when 
    Export a Daz figure to MotionBuilder,Iclone or Maya
     is that you get a base resolution FBX rig with no JCM's
    or HD morphs.

    you will have to manually apply Blend shapes in Maya to get your joint control morphs  looking close to the way they do in Daz.

    Also forget about HD morph details Like those on the new Alexandra 8 Character  as you lose those when your figure leaves Daz studio.
    if you want to retain the full functionality of a genesis figure you should
    consider exporting BVH data from Iclone or Motionbuilder back to DAZ and applying it in daz studio  to your hi subD /HD genesis rigs for rendering. 

    Although Iclone Cost around $700 for the full pipeline version
    you get a permanent license.

    All autodesk products are monthy subscription only
    so within  6 months of "renting" from Autodesk you could have
     purchased   Iclone pro pipeline outright.

    Also Iclone Pro pipeline comes with a free application 
    Called Character creator with base figures that you can morph
    into custom Characters for use in Iclone or export to other applications via FBX or alembic.

    CCinterface.jpg
    568 x 358 - 54K
    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828

    iClone is a stretch, but doable. Do you know of any full end-to-end tutorials for the Daz-iClone-Daz workflow for Genesis 3 or 8?

  • davegvdavegv Posts: 164
    edited February 2018

    Wolf350 Replied:

    One thing you need to consider when 
    Export a Daz figure to MotionBuilder,Iclone or Maya
     is that you get a base resolution FBX rig with no JCM's
    or HD morphs.

    Well, that is not exactly true...

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/226036/this-is-how-you-export-daz-jcms-or-any-other-morphs-via-fbx

    1) Joint morphs. DAZ Studio uses joint controlled morphs (JCM) to properly bend arms and legs and other body parts. You can export them via fbx too. What you need to do is to show hidden properties and show used morphs. So you know the names of the JCMs you have to export. Then in the fbx dialog add those names in the export rules.

    Be aware that once you export the JCMs you will have to apply them yourself to the figure because they are available as morphs but not automatically applied as DAZ Studio does. So you will have to setup drivers too. Also, your target platform must have a compatible weighting system otherwise you will get different results from the JCM. 

    2) HD morphs. Export the figure at base resolution and at high resolution (subd 3-4). Then use Z-Brush to bake the high resolution version to a normal map. Be aware that the normal map will not create real bumps by itself, so the silhouette of the figure will not be affected. To get real bumps from a normal map you also need a render engine supporting micro-displacement. 

    Post edited by davegv on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828
    edited February 2018

    Indeed nice progress on the Maya side
    nearly worth renting and never owning the package
    ...nearly .... however :

    Caution:  for those who want to use this feature with DaztoMaya, be careful how many morphs you export!  For instance, if you want to 


    export all your morphs, including face and body morphs for all your DAZ figures, at the same time, you can use the "Genesis2Female" and it will export everything.  That may sound cool, but if you have too many you may run out of ram when importing on the Maya side and your computer will crash.  It is better to select carefully which morphs you want to carry.
     .......... A special note regarding the JCM's.  You will have the JCM morphs, but they won't be automatically applied during posing like in Daz.  annaputrino has written a script that will pass on the JCM values in an animation file as keyframes but I don't know if he is inclined to share it."

    Still More extra effort to get the figure almost looking as good  
    and workingn almost as well as it did back in studio 

    I personally am only willing to export my meshes in a format that fully retains everything  ready to  light &render
    for me that is textured .obj/MDD to C4D or Lightwave 2015.

    I am a film maker, when my animated  actors get into my final render package I need them ready to render

    with minimal fuss

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8THNhYzV3c3VXN0k/view           

     

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,202
    edited February 2018

    Poser 11 pro as an intermediatory works well for getting animated iClone characters into DAZ studio

    it is the only thing I have had any success with

    import FBX

    save as a cr2 whole group

    save animation as pz2

    open in DAZ studio

    convert each part (all clothes hair and mouth eye etc parts are separate figures) to weightpainting general weights

    save each as a support asset and fit them to the body when loading

    apply the pz2 animations

     

    a video, I was trying to fit clothes and go back to Character Creator but sadly that did not prove suiccessful, it does not recognise the FBX as the bone root is wrong

     

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,778
    davegv said:
    Be aware that once you export the JCMs you will have to apply them yourself to the figure because they are available as morphs but not automatically applied as DAZ Studio does. So you will have to setup drivers too. Also, your target platform must have a compatible weighting system otherwise you will get different results from the JCM.

    Not for Maya - see http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_10_0_123#4_10_0_122

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828

    Now that the Daz 4.10.xx BVH importer recognizes the G3/8 bonemapping , The issue of getting 
    externally created motion back into DS for G3/8, is solved.yeswink

    IMHO the Iclone pro pipeline would be a good
    long term investment for OP of this thread, as even those "free" student licenses for Maya/MOBU have a time limit I am given to understand. 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,778
    wolf359 said:

    Now that the Daz 4.10.xx BVH importer recognizes the G3/8 bonemapping , The issue of getting 
    externally created motion back into DS for G3/8, is solved.yeswink

    IMHO the Iclone pro pipeline would be a good
    long term investment for OP of this thread, as even those "free" student licenses for Maya/MOBU have a time limit I am given to understand. 

    It was always possible to manaully create a node mapping, what is new in 4.10 is automating the mapping in a way that works for the newer Genesis figures.

  • davegvdavegv Posts: 164
    Richard Haseltine said:
    davegv said:
    Be aware that once you export the JCMs you will have to apply them yourself to the figure because they are available as morphs but not automatically applied as DAZ Studio does. So you will have to setup drivers too. Also, your target platform must have a compatible weighting system otherwise you will get different results from the JCM.

    Not for Maya - see http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log_4_10_0_123#4_10_0_122

    Thanks for the info I am useing Daz 4.10.0.107 and was not aware of that update... THANKS!

  • rames44rames44 Posts: 329

    Thank you to all who took the time to respond. Since my end goal is to do the rendering in Daz Studio, the fidelity of the model transfer isn’t quite as important to me as it would be if I was going to do the render externally. (While it might make a difference for some, my animation skills are not at that level) It sounds like the “bring the animation back into DS via BVH” is the path that I should be pursuing. 

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828
    rames44 said:

    Thank you to all who took the time to respond. Since my end goal is to do the rendering in Daz Studio........ It sounds like the “bring the animation back into DS via BVH” is the path that I should be pursuing. 

    Excellent choice
    Iclone pro pipeline will serve you well  in this regard

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,701

    tnx to the contributors here, there were some gems mentioned that I was not aware of.

    Can I assume that Iclone 5 Exchange Pipeline can be used in the same way? (probably using BVH as the import back to DS?)

    All on Genesis1 through the workflow?

    cheers,

    --ms

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828
    mindsong said:

    tnx to the contributors here, there were some gems mentioned that I was not aware of.

    Can I assume that Iclone 5 Exchange Pipeline can be used in the same way? (probably using BVH as the import back to DS?)

    All on Genesis1 through the workflow?

    cheers,

    --ms

    Hi this is correct.
    Infact I started with Iclone Pro/ 3DX 5.5
    before moving up the releases to 6.5 where I remain for now.

    Although 3DX5-5.5 Does not support Genesis 3 natively
    you  can Manually bone map G3 and save the mapping for later use
    For one click retargeting of Imotion Data in future sessions

    I still have my old G3 Saved bonemapping profiles
    There is no legal issue in distribution as it is just a 7Kb text file 
    to describe G3 bone hierarchy to 3DXchange much like a BVH file does.

    PM if you need them to use in 3DX 5 for G3.

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,701

    thanks for the confirmation!

    I'm still 98% G1 (and quite happy!), and I've got the iclone G1 helpers that came with IC5 w 3DXchng, so I think I have what I need to use that workflow. I've followed a few of warlord's YT vids and 'tested' part of the migration back and forth, but wasn't aware of some of the subtleties you folks mentioned above. Even with the re-mapping functions in DS BVH import, I've always had strange import issues (from iclone, mixamo, and even back from DS itself...). I do see that they are actually doing code tweaks to the BVH import in 4.9/4.10 so I may have to revisit my tests and see if any of the failed attempts work now.

    I'll let you know if I have any questions - thanks for the generous offer!

    cheers,

    --ms

  • magen boomagen boo Posts: 15
    rames44 said:

    I've seen lots, both here and elsewhere, about taking Daz characters over to iClone and animating and rendering them there.  (Including all the links in the sticky topic in this forum.)

    Does the iClone pipeline support bringing animated Daz characters back into Daz to be rendered there?  In other words, export to iClone, animate, re-import into Daz, render there as an animation sequence?

    Any new information on this since the latest updates to the products Iclone back to Daz3d?
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,828
    No.
  • 609467946609467946 Posts: 0

    • How do I import iclone bone animations into DAZ.

    • It's too much of a rush

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