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I have to point out that the documentation we have is down to the developers (for which, in this isntance, read Rob) doing it on their own time.
Rich...
That's my point.
Seems to me that if I was in charge I'd have each of the developers making notes on the operation syntax as they go along. Then at some predetermkined benchmark point, I'd start gathering the notes and creating the documentation.
If this is in the work plan and implemented properly it will flow as the work progresses and and any changes can be updated at each benchmark.
If you leave it to one guy at the end of the project it's a nightmare task.
Have all your developers turn over their notes or make notes on the processes they were in charge of.
You might even consider havine each of them be responsible for writing the docs (subject to editing of course) for the project they were working.
But that's just me sayin.
Without good documentation and instructions, sofware sales will burn out after the people who already know how to use it, buy it.
No one else will want to waste their money on something they have to spend another $15,000 on a private instructor to learn.
HOWEVER...
I'm still patiently waiting for some response to my original question as to Poser's worth.
If DAZ can do everything that Poser does, why do I need Poser?
there is a converse to that. If I am quite happy using Poser, which was here first, why do I need DS. And you are posting in the Poser Forum.
and any way If you have to ask ..............................
Basically there are poser users and there are DS users. It's horses for courses. yyou pick the one you like
I'm not sure that DAZ does have everything that Poser does, at least, not without some plug-ins. However, the question is one only you can answer. Which software does what you want to do in the way that you want to do it?
I personally prefer the Poser interface and find it much easier to work with. I like the material room and how it works and have a large library of non-photorealistic materials to help create illustrations, along with the purspose made sketch designer. The multi-pass rendering is another feature I find helpful. Character creation is also helped by some of the game-dev tools, allowing me to merge clothing and models into single figures, while reducing the poly-count and deleting hidden polys altogether. Also, the morph brush is particularly good feature.
One word of advice don't buy Poser 5 (well OK that is 4 words, but expresses one thought) Poser 5 came along when Metacreations sold of their software titles and a consortium called Curious Labs bought Poser. It was because of the problems with Poser 5 that Daz 3d no longer provides the base figures for Poser. It was because of Poser 5 that DDaz 3d decided to try creating their own rendering program in case Poser did go right under, and thus Daz Studio was born.
Having said that, I think Poser 5 is the earliest version of Poser that still works post XP and is the last that can be run independently from an external drive. I actually have it on a thumb drive with a runtime of compatible toon figures and props which is handy for the odd email illustration when I'm feeling silly and away from my desktop (thinking about it though, I'm not sure if I've ever tried it with Windows 10 - it certainly works on Windows 7 though).
I was one of those that pre-ordered Poser 5. I went back to poser 4 until Daz brought V4 out. V4 would not work on P4, and rather than go back to using P5 I managed to get a copy of P7, which is still on my PC and is my go to version to use as a plug in for Bryce (pre-work)
ha ha
As someone who bought both Poser 11 and now uses DAZ exclusively, I can only say that either 1) You really really like the content that there is for Poser and 2) You really love the interface, which what sets it apart.
Technologically speaking, I do believe DAZ Studio has the advantage here. The render engine and the character tech is really more advanced. The market for products is huge compared to Poser.
However that does not mean you cannot create good art in both. And in the end you have to weigh what your money is worth. You can buy Poser, and still use DAZ for free. Maybe you find uses for both.
poser ...5?
just how old IS this thread...? that came out over a decade ago...
and?
And for most things it's pretty obsolete. You won't get any current figures into Poser 5, you'd be using what's included only. As a person who has every version since Poser 4, Poser 5 was the ONLY version that I skipped. It was such a hot buggy mess that I decided I'd stick with Poser 4 until Poser 6 came along. You'd be missing out on every major advancement since - weight mapping, rigging, SSS, realistic rendering. Of course, if none of that really matters to you, then by all means ;).
Laurie
Sometimes old versions of a program can be purchased very cheap or even be available for free, so some people might be tempted to get them despite them being very old.
exactly, thank you Leana.
That would be one of those moments, where you'll spit your coffee all over your screen.
It doesn't really matter that much .... the price of Poser is insignificant to what you will spend on content for either program if you get hooked. You can tell a good story with either, but if you are after realism in characters then you should focus on DAZ and the newer Genesis 3/8 characters.
DAZ Studio may be free, but you have to invest shiploads of money in graphics cards to do anything usefull with it, it seems, at least where iRay is concerned, and 3Delight seems to be joining Poser as something utterly obsolete to DAZ users. And then there's the avalanche of Genesis characters; Studio is not for those with limited financial means. I hardly use studio anymore. I got frustrated by the older versions; between Studio 1, 2 and 3 all shaders etc became obsolete and had to be bought again. That sort of put me off. After a while I just couldn't bother any more, and I never was a big fan of the user interface. What I did like was that it could export to Bryce. I never invested in any of the Genesis generations, what I own I mostly got as freebies. I'm mostly into contemporary and historic themes and was not impressed by the huge collection of cyberpunk, steampunk, skimpwear and fantasy collections from the DAZ store, even if I appreciate the craftmanship behind it. (Okay, Willmap did some nice stuff and for free as well)
I never cared much for the Studio software, but I do regret that the characters are no longer compatible with Poser; for me DAZ was always about the base characters.
The big advantage with the current Studio version is realism, but it still deeply stuck in the uncanny valley and I prefer artwork that is not quite that wannabe photorealistic; it's still too much off for my taste. I worked as a 2D animator in studios with CGI-VFX departments and I have seen cutting edge rigs; some even have animatable skeletons and muscle systems underneath the skin; both Poser and Studio are still limping behind. (And animating in Poser or Studio is a joke once you've used Maya professionally.)
Even the big studios are still struggling with realism, see Tarkin and Leia from Rogue One; I don't mind walking down a less photorealistic road, and I'm not into this big iRay hype..
First version of Poser I ever used was version 1; it came on a computer magazine CD-Rom, and a few years later also version 3 was a magazine freebie.
Poser 4 was the first version I found useful; higher resolution texturemaps, transmapped hair and conforming clothing, and loads of support from the Poser Community. I skipped Poser 5; Smith Micro made it a freebie for a day years later, and I got it just for the heck of it, to see if it deserved the bad rep (yes it did; it's slow as hell and it likes to crash, and I'm happy I never wasted any money on that)
I got Poser 6 not long before Poser 7 came out and upgraded immediately; Poser 7 was the first version since version 4 that I really liked, especially when used with things like RDNA's Render Studio and the VSS human skin shaders by Bagginsbill. It could handle up to 4 render threads so that made a difference as well, and it rarely crashed. Only thing I disliked were the stock human characters; Poser never seemed to get the hang of that. (The other SmithMicro G2 characters were nicer though, and free for Poser 7 owners.)
Skipped a lot of Poser versions and then upgraded to Poser 11 during a sale, and got a version of Reality to go with it to play around a bit. Vicky 4 is old but probably still has the largest wardrobe of them all. She's not quite realsitc and a bit stylized but that keeps her out of the uncanny valley. The free EZSkin can upgrade the shaders of any old character. And Superfly can still handle most of the Firefly shaders. Both Bella and Project Evolution seem nice but the support is too minimal; we'll have to see about La Femme 1.
I think that what hurt Poser most, is that innovators like Bagginsbill, Snarlygribbly, Semidieu and Colm Jackson all left the Poser stage; there is hardly any community support for Superfly. A lot of the things that Poser did better than Studio was due to their efforts. DAZ is better in supporting its software, I have to give them that. Poser has a lot under its hood but leaves its users mostly in the dark.
But even if you have to pay for it, for people on a tighter budget Poser ia still a viable option; if you want to use Studio to the max, you had better grab your creditcard; that's DAZ's basic markteting system, selling loads of content and making you buy all the same stuff again with each and every new Genesis generation..
I use DS and Poser. I have used DS since 1.4 and prefer the UI to Poser. Obviously, there is no comparison between figures. Daz people are light years ahead of poser people (my opinion). Iray rendering and dForce seals the deal. I use poser more as a utility for preparation of models if needed before I bring them into Daz Studio. Poser has more import options and many scripts that are useful. As DS improves over time, I have used Poser much less, but I still use it. Is it worth the full price or even a modest sale price to a DS user? Probably not. I picked up Poser 2005 for free a long time ago and have upgraded a few times for 50 bucks or less. I am even considering upgrading my 2012 Pro to 11 Pro with the latest La Femme promotion for 49.99. It's just another tool for the tool box.
I for one prefer Daz's interface, the character models, rendering, and custom-ability/flexibility in their much better tab system, yet poser has dynamic hair, and an animation suite far superior to daz's, not to mention a PROPERLY functioning IK system, my pipe-dream though is for Daz/SM to better implement a proper bridge for their figures into poser, that way our entire communities can reap the benefits!
I started off wiht Poser several year ago, I had purchase Poser 8 for about $400.00 at the time I was so happy. I took it home and loaded it into my computer system and for a few years I played around with it trying to learn.
I was never truly happy with the Graphis user Interface, but it was ok. I found out about daz studio and the free down load, FROM that time on I put my poser away for good and never looded at it again, To my as a customer DAZ had the better business model for both customers and artist. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my poser when I had it but, crossing over to DAZ really changed my entire thinking about 3d.
I started with Poser back in 2005 and unless you are dead-set on using products no newer than Victoria 4, it's not worth the money. Poser is a good program most of the time, but it hasn't kept up with more modern offerings. It has the best (IMHO) interface if you've never used a 3D package before, that same interface is very different from everyone else's UI, and it can cause problems if you're an old fart like me trying to use other programs. Add to that the fact that most content providers have moved to providing products for Studio, you're left with outdated content.
[Eddited four speeling erorrs.]
All true, but I use both. You can do that!
Edited to fix quote
I know this post is a little old, but I want to leave my two cents anyway.
After using Daz Studio for around 14 years, I recently switched back to Poser. There are several reasons I switched, and several reasons why Poser is still a better option for some people and some uses:
So yeah, I really don't think Poser has "lost the battle" to Daz studio. Poser still has a very large community and it has many features that make it a better option than Studio for some users.
On your last two points: dForce hair is built in to DS, but not user-creatable. Using Iray to render to Canvasses does produce .exr files.