More Non-photorealisitic Renders (NPR II)

MrPatrick

Appreciated that!

mindsong

For you 3DL users, omnifreaker is looking to see if any folks are interested in an update for his 'render throttle' product. It seems a DS update broke it a while back.

Put in a word of interest over at:

  https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/336411/any-interest-in-renderthrottle-for-3delight#latest

cheers,

--ms

mindsong

MrPatrick said:

Figuring out a quick way to create faster renders (and post edits) by a comic-book look.

Not as good as the Batman pic up there... (envy).   But I think this is decent for a series.

Tried to rely less on Photoshop Poster filter (for coloring), while using charcoal and a couple of other effects.

Yay, Nay or Meh?

 

'yay' for me. It's a simple but distinctive look. I don't immediately think "3D render" when I look at it.

nice,

--ms

mmitchell_houston

MrPatrick said:

Figuring out a quick way to create faster renders (and post edits) by a comic-book look. Not as good as the Batman pic up there... (envy).   But I think this is decent for a series.

Tried to rely less on Photoshop Poster filter (for coloring), while using charcoal and a couple of other effects. Yay, Nay or Meh?

I cast my vote with the "Yays." It has a good, clean look that is pleasing to look at. Definitely not looking over processed. Even though the outlines are only around the shapes themselves (got to admit I'm pleased to see the line following his jawline) but not the interior details (the strong outline around his shirt doesn't continue around his bicep where the shirt and skin meet), the outlines do help pull the figures out from the background. Overall, the effect is pleasing enough and if you can do this consistently from panel to panel I think you're on to something here.

Speaking of panel-to-panel. As someone (still) working on a comic, I can tell you one thing I've learned that is very important: You won't know how this style works until you replicate it to create a full page of your story. Honestly, until you see a few panels next to each other you're not really going to know if they fit together well, nor will you know if you're got a look that will work panel after panel, page after page. I spent quite a while working on individual images, but until I started putting them next to each other I didn't know for sure that I was onto something that would actually work.

Two things I would like to mention:

• I  like your lighting on this page. It is clean, even and it makes the central character pop.
• If you are going to have a prominent black character in your story, double-check his skin tone. In this image, he's coming off a little too dark and in a more shadowy scene you might lose him altogether. Consider lightening his skin a little, or in your materials settings increase the reflections/specularity settings to give him better highlights. Lighting for people of color can be tricky, so please experiment with the settings a little more. What I'm seeing here is okay but I must question if the skin will hold up across an entire story.

Finally, I hope you don't mind if I mention your script. I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the "old wardog" and "salty guts tingled" phrasing. WOW, that is evocative! It really sells the character in a few well chosen words. Kudos to you. But... (I guess you knew a "but" was coming), there are a few problems with thhe rest of the caption. Here's what you wrote:

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all too well sensation that an unseen deadly hunter lie just ahead.
Waiting for a trophy to be won.

 

"All too well" is not really a common phrase as it's used here; it's just odd. We're used to reading something more like: "His salty guts tingled with a sensation that he knew all too well.

Then there's "lie." That just doesn't seem finished. We would almost expect "lies in waiting" or something like that. But I would ask if that word conveys enough menace for this situation. Perhaps something more like this?

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all-too-familiar sensation that told him somewhere an unseen, deadly hunter was lurking just ahead. Out of sight. Hidden. Waiting for a trophy to be won by shooting all the ducks in the arcade.

And they were the ducks.

Okay, that whole arcade reference was something that just came to me, and I don't think it's all that good. But I do suggest changing "lie" to "lurking" or "secluded" or "stalking them" or something like that.

I hope I didn't come off as too negative or like a bit know-it-all. I like what I see here and hope you'll share some pages with us soon!

vrba79

MrPatrick said:

Figuring out a quick way to create faster renders (and post edits) by a comic-book look.

Not as good as the Batman pic up there... (envy).   But I think this is decent for a series.

Tried to rely less on Photoshop Poster filter (for coloring), while using charcoal and a couple of other effects.

Yay, Nay or Meh?

 

I think it looks great!

tkdrobert

Spiderman and Blackcat

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

Spiderman and Blackcat

Cool. Loved those two together back in the day.

Question: Did you try something new with this one? The colors look more muted than your usual work.

tkdrobert

mmitchell_houston said:

tkdrobert said:

Spiderman and Blackcat

Cool. Loved those two together back in the day.

Question: Did you try something new with this one? The colors look more muted than your usual work.

Yeah, I played around with some filters.  I'll be doing a more traditional comic book look for Spiderman in the near future.

vrba79

Another cutie for my webcomic. This time G2F with G1 DNA mixed in.

PWToon with just a kiss of Photoshop.

 

MrPatrick

Thanks all, appreciated.

 

mmitchell_houston said:

I cast my vote with the "Yays." It has a good, clean look that is pleasing to look at. Definitely not looking over processed. Even though the outlines are only around the shapes themselves (got to admit I'm pleased to see the line following his jawline) but not the interior details (the strong outline around his shirt doesn't continue around his bicep where the shirt and skin meet), the outlines do help pull the figures out from the background. Overall, the effect is pleasing enough and if you can do this consistently from panel to panel I think you're on to something here.

Speaking of panel-to-panel. As someone (still) working on a comic, I can tell you one thing I've learned that is very important: You won't know how this style works until you replicate it to create a full page of your story. Honestly, until you see a few panels next to each other you're not really going to know if they fit together well, nor will you know if you're got a look that will work panel after panel, page after page. I spent quite a while working on individual images, but until I started putting them next to each other I didn't know for sure that I was onto something that would actually work.

Two things I would like to mention:

• I  like your lighting on this page. It is clean, even and it makes the central character pop.
• If you are going to have a prominent black character in your story, double-check his skin tone. In this image, he's coming off a little too dark and in a more shadowy scene you might lose him altogether. Consider lightening his skin a little, or in your materials settings increase the reflections/specularity settings to give him better highlights. Lighting for people of color can be tricky, so please experiment with the settings a little more. What I'm seeing here is okay but I must question if the skin will hold up across an entire story.

Finally, I hope you don't mind if I mention your script. I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the "old wardog" and "salty guts tingled" phrasing. WOW, that is evocative! It really sells the character in a few well chosen words. Kudos to you. But... (I guess you knew a "but" was coming), there are a few problems with thhe rest of the caption. Here's what you wrote:

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all too well sensation that an unseen deadly hunter lie just ahead.
Waiting for a trophy to be won.

 

"All too well" is not really a common phrase as it's used here; it's just odd. We're used to reading something more like: "His salty guts tingled with a sensation that he knew all too well.

Then there's "lie." That just doesn't seem finished. We would almost expect "lies in waiting" or something like that. But I would ask if that word conveys enough menace for this situation. Perhaps something more like this?

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all-too-familiar sensation that told him somewhere an unseen, deadly hunter was lurking just ahead. Out of sight. Hidden. Waiting for a trophy to be won by shooting all the ducks in the arcade.

And they were the ducks.

Okay, that whole arcade reference was something that just came to me, and I don't think it's all that good. But I do suggest changing "lie" to "lurking" or "secluded" or "stalking them" or something like that.

I hope I didn't come off as too negative or like a bit know-it-all. I like what I see here and hope you'll share some pages with us soon!

Not all all, I like the feedback and admit to even chuckling when I read of the line, "And they were the ducks."  Of what you wrote was spot on.
I honestly only used the narrative as an afterthough, considering of the empty space there... but then that afterthought became no longer just a thought.  And did get hung up with, do I use, "laying in wait" or "lieing in wait", or... ugh; so I went with "lie up ahead"; yeah a cop-out to save time.

I took in the recommendations, even lightening the skin tone of the black guy.  And realized that the facial expressions need to be more exagerated in the render.  In the preview, the expression looks fitting, but after the render and post editting becomes more subdued.  Along with getting the renders too dark (as one I did in the SciFi thread; couldn't see the smoke, except as nearly a black solid).

This one here, is of some changes and reducing the outlines (done as a Stroke effect; but this one is slightly blurred to reduce the hard black pixels).  Please ignore the graphical balloon captions; those are from Photoshop; a dedicate comic program would be used.

mmitchell_houston said:

As someone (still) working on a comic,

I know what you mean. I've been going back and forth, between near photo-realism, or comic; or graphic novel or novel with some pics; trying to get it perfect before starting. And not following the advice to just doing something, even if it is bad; just do it and then make it better.

MrPatrick

tkdrobert said:

Spiderman and Blackcat

Nice effect with the colors.

mmitchell_houston

MrPatrick said:

Thanks all, appreciated.

 

mmitchell_houston said:

I cast my vote with the "Yays." It has a good, clean look that is pleasing to look at. Definitely not looking over processed. Even though the outlines are only around the shapes themselves (got to admit I'm pleased to see the line following his jawline) but not the interior details (the strong outline around his shirt doesn't continue around his bicep where the shirt and skin meet), the outlines do help pull the figures out from the background. Overall, the effect is pleasing enough and if you can do this consistently from panel to panel I think you're on to something here.

Speaking of panel-to-panel. As someone (still) working on a comic, I can tell you one thing I've learned that is very important: You won't know how this style works until you replicate it to create a full page of your story. Honestly, until you see a few panels next to each other you're not really going to know if they fit together well, nor will you know if you're got a look that will work panel after panel, page after page. I spent quite a while working on individual images, but until I started putting them next to each other I didn't know for sure that I was onto something that would actually work.

Two things I would like to mention:

• I  like your lighting on this page. It is clean, even and it makes the central character pop.
• If you are going to have a prominent black character in your story, double-check his skin tone. In this image, he's coming off a little too dark and in a more shadowy scene you might lose him altogether. Consider lightening his skin a little, or in your materials settings increase the reflections/specularity settings to give him better highlights. Lighting for people of color can be tricky, so please experiment with the settings a little more. What I'm seeing here is okay but I must question if the skin will hold up across an entire story.

Finally, I hope you don't mind if I mention your script. I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the "old wardog" and "salty guts tingled" phrasing. WOW, that is evocative! It really sells the character in a few well chosen words. Kudos to you. But... (I guess you knew a "but" was coming), there are a few problems with thhe rest of the caption. Here's what you wrote:

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all too well sensation that an unseen deadly hunter lie just ahead.
Waiting for a trophy to be won.

 

"All too well" is not really a common phrase as it's used here; it's just odd. We're used to reading something more like: "His salty guts tingled with a sensation that he knew all too well.

Then there's "lie." That just doesn't seem finished. We would almost expect "lies in waiting" or something like that. But I would ask if that word conveys enough menace for this situation. Perhaps something more like this?

The old wardog never second guessed himself. His salty guts tingled with an all-too-familiar sensation that told him somewhere an unseen, deadly hunter was lurking just ahead. Out of sight. Hidden. Waiting for a trophy to be won by shooting all the ducks in the arcade.

And they were the ducks.

Okay, that whole arcade reference was something that just came to me, and I don't think it's all that good. But I do suggest changing "lie" to "lurking" or "secluded" or "stalking them" or something like that.

I hope I didn't come off as too negative or like a bit know-it-all. I like what I see here and hope you'll share some pages with us soon!

Not all all, I like the feedback and admit to even chuckling when I read of the line, "And they were the ducks."  Of what you wrote was spot on.
I honestly only used the narrative as an afterthough, considering of the empty space there... but then that afterthought became no longer just a thought.  And did get hung up with, do I use, "laying in wait" or "lieing in wait", or... ugh; so I went with "lie up ahead"; yeah a cop-out to save time.

I took in the recommendations, even lightening the skin tone of the black guy.  And realized that the facial expressions need to be more exagerated in the render.  In the preview, the expression looks fitting, but after the render and post editting becomes more subdued.  Along with getting the renders too dark (as one I did in the SciFi thread; couldn't see the smoke, except as nearly a black solid).

This one here, is of some changes and reducing the outlines (done as a Stroke effect; but this one is slightly blurred to reduce the hard black pixels).  Please ignore the graphical balloon captions; those are from Photoshop; a dedicate comic program would be used.

mmitchell_houston said:

As someone (still) working on a comic,

I know what you mean. I've been going back and forth, between near photo-realism, or comic; or graphic novel or novel with some pics; trying to get it perfect before starting. And not following the advice to just doing something, even if it is bad; just do it and then make it better.

I like the edits to the artwork. The lighter skin tone on the black guy is a definite improvement. Although I do like the thinner outlines a little more, I did like the original thicker ones, too. In both cases you created a style that would work. I would offer one last bit of advice regarding your script, and that is to consider that you have too much dialogue for a single panel. That sort of left-right balloon to balloon ping pong almost never works. This sort of scene calls for at least a full page, maybe more:

1. Close up on black guy with a clear view of his face: "Dog, I see no..."
2. Close up on white guy: "Tellin' ya..."
3. Wide panel showing what they are looking at, including the window in question. Black guy off Panel: "You mean the window..."
   White Guy off panel: "Yup. That one. He'll..."
4. Medium shot with both guys (the panel you've already shown us above): BG: "All right. Your call. So what..."
   WG: "That's the plan. Better than sitting here..."
5. Small panel with BG's face showing a grin: "You know I'm calling you..."
6. The previous panel you showed us, with his hand in motion to give the signal. WG: "Only if you score... on Three."

At least that's how I would break it down to try to time the action to the beats of the dialogue. Just a thought. Looking forward to seeing a full page or two from you soon.

wsterdan

philebus said:

I think I might continue playing around with some little critters in this style. It's simple but I'm sure I can find some use for them somewhere. This is Ken Gilliland's lizard.

I really like this style, it looks like it would do well for logos and branding.

-- Walt Sterdan

wsterdan

vrba79 said:

Another cutie for my webcomic. This time G2F with G1 DNA mixed in.

PWToon with just a kiss of Photoshop.

Very cute, I like the almost-airbrushed look of them.

-- Walt Sterdan

vrba79

wsterdan said:

vrba79 said:

Another cutie for my webcomic. This time G2F with G1 DNA mixed in.

PWToon with just a kiss of Photoshop.

Very cute, I like the almost-airbrushed look of them.

-- Walt Sterdan

Thanks! As for her "shape", I've been binging on a lot of Lupin III lately, so some Fujiko Mine might have snuck in there.

DaremoK3

MrPatrick :

I like the style you show -- But, I've always been partial to this look as opposed to a Phong or Raytraced (going for realism) in a 3D comic.  Then again, I don't care for comics that just slap real-world photos together for a comic neither -- yeah, I am biased towards artistic looks if one is going to do 3D comics.

I think your first image is stronger in regards to subject (character) vs secondary props and background -- I thought you utilized the subject outline technique, but your second picture is without this, so I may be mistaken.  I love the foreground to background, clean 3D to 2D (bad 3D details always takes me out of an image), and your staging looks great.

Your second image looks more flat or less 'pop' without it -- I think you need inklines (outline technique or otherwise) to make your subject matter stand out more.

I was going to say something about it looking horizontally compressed, but it is only your upload -- did you enter values in both horizontal and vertical parameters -- only enter horizontal (800 px or percentage trick) and it will auto-scale correctly so your image will look correct in forum without skewing -- Of course, clicking on it to full screen shows fine.

I both agree, and disagree with Mike regarding the second panel's dialogue.  Yes, he is correct that his suggestions would be great for pacing, but also, I have seen long dialogues for single panels where pacing is already well established (Japanese Manga, French GN's, American Indies -- not everything follows American comic conventions, let alone, DC/Marvel Cookbooks).

 

"I've been going back and forth, between near photo-realism, or comic; or graphic novel or novel with some pics; trying to get it perfect before starting."

The term comic vs graphic novel as a style has always bugged me -- a comic is a serial endeavour while a graphic novel is an illustrated novel that adheres to the novel convention of beginning, middle, and ending regardless of artistic style used for either.  I have no  desire to create a comic (serialized work), but I have been working on several graphic novels for decades -- one is even a trilogy series.

Which brings me to my final statement :

"And not following the advice to just doing something, even if it is bad; just do it and then make it better."

This...  So much this  --  take your time and get everything right first for you  --  only publish when you have nailed the look you are going for (and not what others believe should be 'your' look).  I'd rather view someone's finished singular style that took them forever to come to then reading someone's work where the work, images, artistic style is a moving target because they haven't figured it out yet.

In my eyes, you are off to a good start, but I am nobody, so take what I say with a grain of salt  --  good luck, and I look forward to more of your postings.

 

* EDIT :  Suggestions/critiques are good, but ultimately it is your work, so create what you like...

DaremoK3

tkdrobert :

As always, you are killing it.  I have loved watching you grow in your style (though, changing at your whim, and not married to).

Your Batman from previous page is my favorite so far (amongst many from you), but I am a tad bit partial to the bat.

That Spiderman/Blackcat is sexy as hell, and I love the technique and coloring used.

Keep doing you...

DaremoK3

Everyone else's work looks great as well  --  Keep posting your amazing NPR work  --  I don't log in often to post, but it is one of my daily views I try to make time for to see what inspirational work you guys are up to.

DaremoK3

Mike :

I know I am late on this, but thank you, for your comments on my last postings way back on page 36.

You don't really need another ego boost, but man, your Galaxy Prime book cover turned out awesome  --  I loved watching you develop that one, and how you completed it.

No sir, you got mad skills!

Gotta go  --  baking some NPR...

tkdrobert

DaremoK3 said:

tkdrobert :

As always, you are killing it.  I have loved watching you grow in your style (though, changing at your whim, and not married to).

Your Batman from previous page is my favorite so far (amongst many from you), but I am a tad bit partial to the bat.

That Spiderman/Blackcat is sexy as hell, and I love the technique and coloring used.

Keep doing you...

Thank you.  I’ve bee trying to do a good Batman and Spidernan for some time.  I feel like I’m finally getting there.

jepsonpeteCMT

vrba79 said:

Another cutie for my webcomic. This time G2F with G1 DNA mixed in.

PWToon with just a kiss of Photoshop.

 

Nice cartoon style, I like the strong outline. It has a Dinsey kind of look to it. Perhaps a cell shaded style.

jepsonpeteCMT

I downloaded a trial of Z brush (which I haven't used for quite a few years) to test the new NPR shader.

I took the Dinsoaur model from Daz and played around with the settings. This is a composite of a few renders out of Z brush:

It's not bad. I'm a bit rusty with the Zbrush software and it's weird interface. Once I become a bit more familiar with it, I'll post an update.

I'll post a couple of the test renders direct from Z brush

jepsonpeteCMT

These are a few of the direct test renders for Z brush. I haven't figured out how to apply the texture yet, so for now it's just a plain colour

This one is my favourite out of this bunch:

tkdrobert

Getting better, but I'm still not there.  One day I'll make a Spiderman (and Batman) render that I'm 100% happy with.

vrba79

tkdrobert said:

Getting better, but I'm still not there.  One day I'll make a Spiderman (and Batman) render that I'm 100% happy with.

Looks pretty great though

Headwax

Ha, I've missed 109 posts here, congrats MMitchell cover looks wonderous. There's some beautiful gems I have missed.

I've been spending too much time in a real studio.... here's a carrara job to keep my eye in

photodonut and filter forge plus some hand work, different filters on different Carrara render passes

tkdrobert

vrba79 said:

tkdrobert said:

Getting better, but I'm still not there.  One day I'll make a Spiderman (and Batman) render that I'm 100% happy with.

Looks pretty great though

 

Thanks

jepsonpeteCMT

Headwax_Carrara said:

Ha, I've missed 109 posts here, congrats MMitchell cover looks wonderous. There's some beautiful gems I have missed.

I've been spending too much time in a real studio.... here's a carrara job to keep my eye in

photodonut and filter forge plus some hand work, different filters on different Carrara render passes

This looks great. A perfect pencil shading effect

jepsonpeteCMT

A few tests in Zbrush with the daz sub dragon

mmitchell_houston

Headwax_Carrara said:

Ha, I've missed 109 posts here, congrats MMitchell cover looks wonderous. There's some beautiful gems I have missed.

I've been spending too much time in a real studio.... here's a carrara job to keep my eye in

photodonut and filter forge plus some hand work, different filters on different Carrara render passes

Very cool effect! I love that pencil sketch look. (And thanks for the comments on my cover.)