Iray Skin

alex_bb8aa5da

My goal is to generate photo realistic characters. I am using Iray to render. When I load my Gen2 figures - say Michael six - i get a bunch of skin options, but only one of them says "iray".  Does this mean all my Gen2 males must have the same skin type (iray version) if I want them to look photorealistc and the other skins that come are only for 3Dlight?

Along the same lines, I am using a lot of Gen2 stuff (because it is a lot cheaper to get different things for these charactres right now).  Do I need to be doing anything specific to take full advantage of iray capabilities?  Or am I making a mistake all together investing in Gen2 as stuff for it is not iray-able, or doesn't look any more realistic for being rendered in iray.

Maybe another way to phrase the question: if I want photorealistic iray characters, is it ok to be unsing Gen2 stuff?  And if so, what special actions/limitations should I impliment?

thank you sooooo much forum gurus.  You are totally saving my sanity. (And feeding my addition...)

 

BeeMKay

Yes, it is absolutely okay to use g2 for Iray Photorealistic stuff. Actually, because they have more polygons, it's easier to make Iray bump/displacement working.

But G2 was created before Iray became part of DS, and so they "just" have the old textures. That mean you either have to do manual conversion, or use a tool like this one: https://www.daz3d.com/iray-smart-converter-and-advanced-skin-managers-for-genesis-2

For clothing, it's worth to learn how to convert them to Iray, too. 3Dl relied a lot on bump maps to create freat surface structure, while in Iray, you need the actual polygons to back up the details.

These two are Genesis 2 characters (the same "leads" in both pictures), which I converted to Iray by using the conversion with the skin manager as base. Because I changed some settings, I had to desaturate the diffuse map... and more. It is a learning curve, but a worthwhile one.

 

 

alex_bb8aa5da

Bee, thank you soooo much.  Pictures really help.  i am a little more novice than you give me credit for, so to break down what you said...:

<<Yes, it is absolutely okay to use g2 for Iray Photorealistic stuff.>>

YAY!

<<Actually, because they have more polygons, it's easier to make Iray bump/displacement working.>>

I am not sure what this says... I know what a polyfon is, but what an "iray bump" or a "displacement" is, i am not sure.

<<But G2 was created before Iray became part of DS, and so they "just" have the old textures. That mean you either have to do manual conversion, or use a tool like this one: https://www.daz3d.com/iray-smart-converter-and-advanced-skin-managers-for-genesis-2>>

So what happens if I use an old texture with a iray?  Does the skin 1. crash the program  2. look as if it was rendered in cartoony 3DL?  3. Just look wierd and off, like what happens when I try to apply a G3 pose to a G2 figure? 

<<For clothing, it's worth to learn how to convert them to Iray, too. 3Dl relied a lot on bump maps to create freat surface structure, while in Iray, you need the actual polygons to back up the details.>>

What does this mean? :)  I am rendering stuff with "old" clothes in iray... and nothing is crashing my computer.  Will things look better if I convert them?  or what will happen?

<<These two are Genesis 2 characters (the same "leads" in both pictures), which I converted to Iray by using the conversion with the skin manager as base. Because I changed some settings, I had to desaturate the diffuse map... and more. It is a learning curve, but a worthwhile one.>>

YAY pictures.  So the Tall guy in shorts who looks photorealistic is the exact same guy who is sitting at th table looking more doll like, right? And this is because you converted his skin using the tool above? 

Not sure what a diffuse map does...

thank you!!!

Alex

 

BeeMKay

I'm not sure if I can compress what I've learned in 3 years into a single post...

---bump, displacement: this describes maps that control surface behaviour heights. bump pretends that you have a bump, while displacement actually pretends you have moved the polygons to give edges, etc. 3DL was great with that, so you coul have less polygons, but still great details, like wrinkels, etc.

Iray is a lot harder to please; you need structure (polygons) to make it give you the same result.

Here's an example:

The base: a one-polygone plane at the left side, and a 100-polygone plane at the right side.

On these surfaces, I applied a 3DL shader, and an Iray shader. 3Delight works the same on both surfaces, while Iray only works well on the one with many polygons:

--using old textures with Iray: that is not a problem, because in DS, you have a built-in base conversion that automatically pretends you have applied the Iray Base shader to a surface that is 3Delight. The result, of course, varies. Sometimes the result looks too glossy, some 3Delight shaders don't work very well because they are mathematical settings instead of maps (procedural shaders).

--clothing: see above about old textures. Yes, it can help making them look more realistic.

--The guys - yes, tall guy is the same as the sitting guy. The texture I used was exactly the same on both, and the difference between the two is just a small change in the Iray settings, and I used a slightly differently desaturated version of the original skin map. Explaining thew entire process takes rather long, though. They easiest way would for you to load the Iray skin you have, select one of the surfaces, experiment. Here's some "basic reading" that might give you a few insights: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/56788/iray-start-here#latest

For understanding some of the basic vocabulary, look at this article: https://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Iray-Surfaces-And-What-They-Mean-519346747

Itay has deveolped since then, but it's the same concept.

Here's a quick example for the skin: I have loaded base G2M, selected him in the scene tab, opened the surface tab, and selected there the face surface so you can see part of the settings. The shader is 3Delight by default. At the bottom, you see a setting called "Diffuse colour". This is where the map that you see on the surface is plugged in. This map is called "Diffuse map".  Also important is the UV set, which is telling the program how to put together the flat maps when it wraps it around the 3D figure. Here, the UV map is Base Male; there are various sets that allow you to use other generation skins on your figure (like, M4 or Genesis). The only break is towards G3/G8, because they changed the UV layout considerably, and so the UV maps do no longer have a bse compatibility.

I've now started the Iray preview render on the 3Delight materials, and you see that they render pretty decent. It's not very photorealistic because of the settings, but you it's a start. I've circled a second map for you; this is the aforementioned bump map.

Here, you can find the Iray Uber base shader shader. Applying it helps shortening preparation times, as the render engine doesn't have to slog through the conversions.

After applying it, the surface tabs now shows different settings. Our Diffise Colour is now called Base colour, and the other maps have been mostly plugged into their correct slots. For comparision, I have loaded a secong G2M, who has the 3Delight settings.

To show how the Skin converter changes the settings, I have applied the skin conversion to the one character, while the other has the base Iray shader conversion.

You already see the difference in the non-rendered preview window, but the difference becomes more obvious when you start the render:

The difference becomes even more pronounced with better quality skins, like the one of Michael 6:

Of course, that is just a starting point, but like I said, the G2 charactesr are perfectly usable for rendering in Iray.

alex_bb8aa5da

Bee you are amazing sauce.  THANK YOU.  Bottom line as I understand: When I use 3DL stuff with Iray, it does its best to make it look good, but without either manual or product-bought tweaking, it won't look it's best.  When ready to render, use settings to enhance how the skin and surfaces and clothing look ;)  Read A LOT to understand how and which setting to use. 

 

 

BeeMKay

You're welcome, though I'm really sorry that I can't show you properly. I've added a few more images& explanations after you posted, so maybe that gives you a bit of help, too.

The easiest way would be if you show your work in progess when you hit a problem, and everyone's certainly willing to help you.

Also, I strongly recommend that you join the New User Contests, or maybe have a look at their various WIP threads. Experienced users help you out with your renders in regard to a specific topic (the contest), so you improve bit by bit and gain that experience to help you make your characters look photorealistic. :-)

alex_bb8aa5da

Bee, you are absolutely amazing!!!  the side by side comparisons are REALLY invaluable!