Sclera Black in Iray
ultimativity
Posts: 0
Hello,
I am working on scenes inside Airport Island City. I have had no problems with renders so far. I am using G3F and V7 figures. The render settings are Default.
Over the last week or so, my renders have dark sclera. The figures look fine when in Texture draw style. But as soon as I select NVIDIA, the figure's slera darken. This only happens when I insert a figure inside the Airport Island City. When I load the character and it is not placed inside the City, the render looks fine. However, once a figure is loaded into the Airport Island City environment, the figure's sclera darken. The figure's sclera remain dark then even after I delete the City from the scene. When I load the figure onto West Park, the problem does not occur.
The problem occurs with a background and without. The lighting does not make a difference.
If anyone has suggestions or ideas, please post. I don't understand why this is happening now, when I have been using Airport Island for quite a while.
Thank you
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Comments
I often feel problem about sclera and iris color when I render inner scene.(not only about iray, but in cycles blender too)
then struggle to get reasonable render. I understand, it is most of lighting problem which transmitted to and reflected from sclera. HDRI and out of room can generate more lay ,thorugh eye reflection, and reflact, transmitt then can reflect clear screla texture color. but when we render in the scene, (and it may change env HDRI already I think) the less light can throw relfection surface from limit direction. it happen twise (into, then reflect, out of from sclera mat), then can easy dark with ior and reflaction setting.
And have you tried spot render, around eye only, with more render quarity? then check it actually happen still.
if tweak surface setting, it caused by eye reflection and tears mat setting , I sometimes cheat sclrela color more blight ,it work for my purpose with cycles. but not try with iray. (though Iray try to physically correct, but it is not expected when I hope to not emit much all surface)
then I hope to confrim how you set-up actor skin? did you change it for iray mat already, or it sitll AoA default shader? iray still render, even though I use 3delight shaders, it is not so bad (at least check in 3d view, ) but use iray mat for character, or apply daz uber iray shader (with keep textures) and auto convert, may show better render I think. but actually eye need to adjust much by each lighting set up.
If you can show parameter setting, with eye surfaces part you may get moer professional advice from other users.
but at least I can recommend something, apply daz offer iray "water-thin" shader, from surface tab preset> Shaders>iray>requid> for eyemoisture surface.
then see how it work, if it not good,
I usually once set paefect transmission (you can hide it with geometry editor, or simply change cut out opacity value to 0, about eye reflection mat, then remove eye reflection effect once).
check how your screra show in render. if it still dark for you, you need to tweak screla setting or your scene actually need more light.
after that, I tweak eye reflection (eye moisture) mat (with thin water shader) parameters again. genesis3 eye mositrure poligon have no thickness at all.
it means we need to use "thin volume" setting,then "thin water" shader can show more reasonable transmisison than other water shader etc,,.
Check your Render Settings: Optimization -> Max Path Length. If this is set to something other than -1, your light may be bouncing off of and interacting with too many things and the light that should be interacting with your eyes has reached the end of it's journey before getting back to the camera.
It not happen because max length path -1 = default setting.
Here is something to try. In the past in large scenes, if your character is too far away from world center it can cause strange things to happen with the eyes and other transparent surfaces.
Yes, It seems answer I think. I saw same report a few month ago . it happened me too.(the effect often change, now I get crack skin, and I once see eye turn black too) seems not be improved still.
Thank you for the responses. I will try these ideas to see if they resolve the problem.
This suggests either adding the scene is altering the render settings (please check and make screen caps to show), or the characters and camera are being moved from world center. Both of these possibilities have already been raised, and these are the first things to check. Don't assume anything, as the addition of the scene could be altering your settings in unintended ways.
Thje black sclera is most common with the max path length setting. The world center bug more commonly revolves around materials that have transparencies. Some shaders for eyes include transparencies, so this is something to look at if the eyes of your characters include this.
Okay, I did parent the entire scene to my character and then zeroed the world. Unfortunately, this did not improve the render.
I also selected the right eye and added the water thin shader. Unfortunately, this did not improve the render.
I did notice that characters in the scene displayed a black band around the forehead, in addition to the black sclera. (See attached screenshot).
kitakoredaz, I did not understand what you are saying concerning the eye reflection mat. The attached screenshot includes some setting for the character's eye. Which parameters need to be in the screenshot?
I will check the render settings before and after loading the city. However, when I load the city, then load a character, the character appears at 0 -0 -0. But the character already loaded inside the city (the character with the black sclera) is at x - -72160.92, y - 43.18589, z --28324.87.
More and more points to the bug related to characters distant from world center. The dark band on the forehead usually comes from the hair skullcap, which uses a transparency. You can test this theory by temporarily removing the hair (don't just hide it).
Changing to a water shader for an eye likely won't alter things if the problem is caused by a transparency for the iris or other eye part. You'd need to remove any transparency to test.
Finally, be sure to note the Max Path Length render setting. Your scene might be changing that. Revert to -1 as needed. This may cause longer renders, but at least you'd know you can work with the settings to arrive at a better value.
Tobor, thanks for responding. Sure enough removing the hair took care of the black forehead band.
I did check the Max Path Length. It remains at -1 with or without the City.
I don't understand the Transperarency. Where do I find it, so that I can adjust it?
Thanks
@ultimativity, if you are figure located, at x - -72160.92, y - 43.18589, z --28324.87 actually it cause problem. it is what JamesJAB point out already,
if parent way not work, you may try once un-parented your Actor then move to world zero point, without parented, but memorize, those value
x - -72160.92, y - 43.18589, z --28324.87, then gather your set and camera, as one group (without actor), and move it as x = 72160.92, y = 43.18589, z = 28324.87
then it wiill be keep relatively same position with camera I think. I believe, actually it cause your problem.
about surface , what I mentioned is, one is "eyemoisture" , the other is "cornea" surface group of G3F. . most of character need to apply transparent about these 2 surface. then when you select those mat, and check them you can not find any texture about those surface. then usually these mat setting can cause dark screla when light not pass through Enough,
other eye suface mainly show their base map color. (sclera white, or iris ,pupils) but can be blocked or not reflect with reflaction setting of "eyemoisture" , "cornea"
then I suggested tweak them. (or apply cut out oapcity to 0, then see, your sclera how render etc)
Sorry for the necromancy, Google brought me there.
Bug still present in DAZ Studio Beta 4.11.0.382. My mitigation for this problem was setting the IRay instancing optimization from memory to speed:
Yep, the problem is still there.
Even at the center of the axis sometimes.
And there are a lot of hairline black stuff issues as well
This has been a huge problem for myself lately as well. I have two major indoor scenes that cause this issue. In one, there has been no solution to the problem. In the other, however, I did find a solution. Create a primitive 'plane'. Make it fairly big (say around 20m). Set the plane's emission color to white (1.00 , 1.00 , 1.00). Now turn the plane so that the flat surface is at a 90 degree angle from the character's eyes. Set the plane a short distance behind your camera. Now re-run the render. The white surface gives something for the sclera to reflect and that can solve the issue. In the Mick Gothic 2 scene, this solved the problem. In the Modern Museum scene, this did not solve the problem.
I have to believe there is a bug in Iray that is causing this, but even the latest beta of 4.11 doesn't fix the issue. Sorry, I know this is frustrating. It has been a serious annoyance. Good luck.
The problem with that is that it alters the light of the scene.
Putting everything at the center of the axis fixes the issue most of the time.
Otherwise I just paint the sclera myself during the editing process.
Out of curiosity, what kind of video card do you have? I just discovered something interesting. If I render 'Modern Museum' with my Nvidia 2080 in 4.11 (which I have to use, because 4.10 doesn't support the newer graphics cards) the problem is insurmountable. If I take the exact same scene with 4.10 using my older Quadro P4000 on another workstation the problem goes away. I'm trying to find out if there are any similar cirumstances with other people who have this issue. Hence why I ask what video card you have. I'm grasping at straws to see what the root of this might be.
Try someone other than a genesis 8 person
I have been told this is not an issue with genesis 8 geometry by so many and no other figures ever gave me issues
while I arrived at a solution in in this thread for my software of choice
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/305721/the-black-corneas-are-an-issue-outside-daz-studio-and-skiriki-solved-it-for-me#latest
many were quick to point out they had no issues so was user error
if cards indeed make a difference then yes certain people would be blessed
So it seems a driver and/or iray issue. Since 4.11 uses different drivers and a different version of iray. This also means there's hope it will be fixed with future drivers. Personally I'm using 4.10 and I only got the black eyes issue when I restricted too much the max path lenght and/or when using scene only lights without a dome thus with nothing to reflect on the eyes. So it was my fault.
EDIT. You may also want to try the nvidia studio drivers with 4.11 to see if the issue gets fixed. It may be an issue with game drivers.
This just happened to me and your advice worked,thank you!
Hey-
Are you the same mininessie from the Faery Wylde days?
..Joe
If you're referring to the character's eyes turning black and their skin getting a terrible orange fake tan, you can fix it just by changing the "Instance Optimization" option until it stops.
yes :D
no, my character have black sclera and it was so far from the center, i did what JamesJAB told and it worked right,but thank you too!
Try changing the optimization settings in Render tab
Change Optmization/ instancing optimization from Memory to Speed or vice versa.
Rauko did a Youtube video dealing with black rings on the eyes and that sometimes works.
@JamesJab's suggestion of moving it to world center is what I usually default to.
Positive: The "parent to figure and move to world center" gimmick worked for me. Thank you to all who worked out that solution above.
Negative: This bug is still present in Daz nearly four years (and, judging by the reference to Daz 4.11 above, no fewer than four major Daz updates) after the original post. There's unforeseen product bugs, and then there's laziness, Daz.
a) it's a limitation, not a bug. b) it's a limitation, not a bug, in Iray not in Daz Studio.
This bug is caused by Iray using float data types instead of doubles to make calculations faster. They are not as precise, hence why the effect gets worse the farther from world origin a character is. There is nothing Daz can do to fix it, short of writing their own rendering engine.
The Iray docs state it can be "fixed" by changing the Instance Optimization setting, which will automatically recenter your scene at world origin and make the calculations more precise. Doing that manually is unnecessary.
THIS SOLVED MY ISSUE. Thank you.