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Can't figure out how to create a prop correctly

ShaunBuildsShaunBuilds Posts: 23
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Hey all,

I'm making a pushpin prop, with seven primitives joined together. They're all parented together and I selected them all, but when I save it under support assest - figure/prop asset it only saves a single primitive. I know I'm doing it wrong but with all the research I've done trying to figure it out I can't. If possible I'd like to save the needle and body as seperate bones so they can be individually colored but at this point I just want the stupid thing to save correctly so I can add multiple of them into a scene. I'm obviously new but am trying to learn as quickly as possible, and any advice would be very much appreciated.

Comments

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,760

    If you are trying to do it in Daz Studio, I don't think that you can save multiple primatives together as one object.
    A work around could be to save it as a scene.  (just make sure that there are no lights, cameras or other items in the scene)  Then when you load it, tell it to merge into the current scene.

    Studio is not a 3D modeling program.  For that you need something like Hexagon or Carrara.  In those you can build it and set multiple material zones, then export as an obj file for importing into Studio.

  • macleanmaclean Posts: 2,438

    The correct way to do this is to save each individual item as a Figure/Prop asset. That creates a data folder for each one. Then save them all together as a Scene Subset, which is the correct way to save multiple items in a single file. The saved thumbnail will have a 'Set' overlay to show there's more than one item.

    If you save them as a scene and there are no data folders for them, DS will write the data folders in the auto_adapted folder, plus the scene file will save lights, cameras and render settings.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    maclean way is  right  and  I think it is official manner, to save each props as one scene subset. 

    Then If you do not need to move each prop individually , but just hope to keep individual suface group, you can export props as obj, then re-import it as obj, with default option too.

    it make new obj, which have individual surface group.  then you can save it as new one prop. ds simply export all mesh currently visible, and when you import the obj, it gathered as one. and If imported obj  set strange name for each surface group, you can re-name, and re-assgin surface group for each part as you like, in DS geometry editor.

    Gathering props as one obj, then save it as one prop may help , when you try to  rig it in future (after learninig more, DS joint editor or figure set-up tool etc,, then you can move each part as one rigged prop if you hope so)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,027

    I would export as OBJ, reimport, tidy up the surface names with the Geometry Editor tool, and save as a single prop asset.

  • ShaunBuildsShaunBuilds Posts: 23
    Thank you all, I appreciate it very much! I'll try it out when I get home today.
  • harold_withersharold_withers Posts: 305

    Hi there,

    I have a similar question to this one, so I won't start a new thread for it. I have a Scene Subset prop that I'm using to group the parts together that make up a Blastdoor and doorway. For the small one all is fine as it only has one moving part, the door itself, so this is fine as is and can be moved with a slider. The issue I have is with the larger blast doors which have multiple moving parts all on individual sliders. So for a good end user experience I want to be able to tie all these sliders to one overall slider that can then control all the door parts and facilitate an opening and closing of those blast doors. So my question is this. What is the best method to group a number of assets as a combined prop, that will also enable you to control and move multiple elements within that group with one slider?

     

    Thanks in advance for any assistance guys.

  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 856
    edited June 2021

    harold_withers said:

    Hi there,

    I have a similar question to this one, so I won't start a new thread for it. I have a Scene Subset prop that I'm using to group the parts together that make up a Blastdoor and doorway. For the small one all is fine as it only has one moving part, the door itself, so this is fine as is and can be moved with a slider. The issue I have is with the larger blast doors which have multiple moving parts all on individual sliders. So for a good end user experience I want to be able to tie all these sliders to one overall slider that can then control all the door parts and facilitate an opening and closing of those blast doors. So my question is this. What is the best method to group a number of assets as a combined prop, that will also enable you to control and move multiple elements within that group with one slider?

     

    Thanks in advance for any assistance guys.

    You can use ERC sliders,. 

    Make sure that your objects are grouped in some kind of parent child hierarchy. 

    1) open window > panes > property hierarchy.

    2) on the main object, right-click and select ERC Freeze 

    3) select the object that you would like to use as the controlling/Main object, where the slider will appear and click create new 

    4) a new window will open. Fill in the parameters, like name, label etc and click create. Let's say we call it "Main Controller."

    5) this will take you back to the previous window. Click Cancel. 

    6) this takes you back to the property hierarchy main window, and you will see that the new property "Main Controller" has been created as a child under your main object. it is amongst all the other items like Ytranslate, XScale etc. 

    7) If you expand YTranslate, you will see that it contains 4 items: Link, Aliases, sub-components and Controllers. Expand Controllers and you will see 1st stage 2nd stage. What you need to do is drag your "Main Controller" item that you created earlier into 1st stage. And do it for every property that you want to control. So for example, drag it into Blast door's Ytranslate > controllers > 1st stage as well as doorway's Ytranslate > controllers > 1st stage. 

    "Main Controller" will appear under the properties of your main object where all the x,y,z sliders are. When you move it though, you will see that it controls all the other objects as well. 

    Hope that helps. 

    Post edited by BradCarsten on
  • lukon100lukon100 Posts: 810

    harold_withers said:

    Hi there,

    I have a similar question to this one, so I won't start a new thread for it. I have a Scene Subset prop that I'm using to group the parts together that make up a Blastdoor and doorway. For the small one all is fine as it only has one moving part, the door itself, so this is fine as is and can be moved with a slider. The issue I have is with the larger blast doors which have multiple moving parts all on individual sliders. So for a good end user experience I want to be able to tie all these sliders to one overall slider that can then control all the door parts and facilitate an opening and closing of those blast doors. So my question is this. What is the best method to group a number of assets as a combined prop, that will also enable you to control and move multiple elements within that group with one slider?

     

    Thanks in advance for any assistance guys.

    If you need more explanation about this strange phenomenon called "ERC", I think this downloadable PDF tutorial does a pretty good job of explaining it: https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/81207/tutorial-daz-studio-erc-feature

  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294
    edited January 1

    This is not the most on-point thread for my issue, but it is a lot more current and at least moderately relevant.

    I have a "prop" made of a bunch of components all in a group, and on the group I've created a number properties to control the prop.  One of these (call it A) raises the top half of the prop (done by morphs on the components rather than y-scale so as to preserve shapes).  Another (call it B) "articulates" the prop so it folds down flat.  Within B is a subcomponent of the x-rotation of component (call it F) so that it lies flat with B.

    My problem is that the x-rotation of component F needs to be different in the folded flat state of B depending on how high the top of the prop has been set in A - and I cannot find out how to do this in the property heirarchy.  I've tried any number of perms and combs but all seem to end up locking A to some value of B (in a weird relationship to the value of B but that is a different and unimportant story).

    So can anyone point me to how to set up either A or B such that the x-rot of component F is the base value (1st station -45deg) needed for B to operate properly when A is set to zero but increases by -12deg / 27% when A is 100%, and vice-versa when A is a negative value?  Whatever the solution, I'm looking to have A and B not locked one to the other so the prop can be dialed to any height the scene needs, and then B operated to lay it flat for certain "poses".

    Thanks in advance for any hints and help. Cheers, Lx

     

    Post edited by stitlown on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720

    stitlown said:

    This is not the most on-point thread for my issue, but it is a lot more current and at least moderately relevant.

    I have a "prop" made of a bunch of components all in a group, and on the group I've created a number properties to control the prop.  One of these (call it A) raises the top half of the prop (done by morphs on the components rather than y-scale so as to preserve shapes).  Another (call it B) "articulates" the prop so it folds down flat.  Within B is a subcomponent of the x-rotation of component (call it F) so that it lies flat with B.

    My problem is that the x-rotation of component F needs to be different in the folded flat state of B depending on how high the top of the prop has been set in A - and I cannot find out how to do this in the property heirarchy.  I've tried any number of perms and combs but all seem to end up locking A to some value of B (in a weird relationship to the value of B but that is a different and unimportant story).

    So can anyone point me to how to set up either A or B such that the x-rot of component F is the base value (1st station -45deg) needed for B to operate properly when A is set to zero but increases by -12deg / 27% when A is 100%, and vice-versa when A is a negative value?  Whatever the solution, I'm looking to have A and B not locked one to the other so the prop can be dialed to any height the scene needs, and then B operated to lay it flat for certain "poses".

    Thanks in advance for any hints and help. Cheers, Lx

     

    The simplest way is: let's take "A controls F" as an example: 1) Set default value of X-Rotate of F as -45 (or use B as another controller to set this "Base -45 degree"...);  2) Set A as 1st Stage Controller of F, with ERC [DeltaAdd] + Scarla: -12 (ss 1 ~ 2) 

    You may also use ERC [Keyed] to give it more precise control ~~

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  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294
    edited January 2

    Thanks for the super-fast come-back, Crosswind, but it appears I'm still not understanding. Maybe I stated the issue poorly, so let me try again.  And I have possibly made it more complex because the x-rot is actually done by another property, which B is manipulating. But for the example. let's just say F = x-rot.

    So. 

    1. When A and B are both zero - F needs to be zero.  
    2. When B is zero, whatever value A  takes, F still needs to be zero.
    3. [there's a minor complication we'll ignore that as B travels from 0% to 100% F is ERC Keyed to give an illusion of bounce-on-collapse.  But let's just look at the end state].
    4. When B is 100% and A is zero, F is 100% == x-rot -45deg

    I have the above working. But

    5. When B is 100% and A is 100%, I need F to be 127% == x-rot -57deg

    6. and When B is 100% A is -75%, I need F to be 80% == x-rot -36deg

    What I am not "getting" is how to make F a different value conditional on the value of A and B combined ie  the second part of F= A + .267 * A  * B  (if I've done the formula right).

    In my set-up, I can manipulate either the property F, which manipulates the x-rot, or I could work on the x-rot directly.  Stricly, property F isn't necessary. It was just done as a way-point in getting the articulation looking as it should and is nothing more than the x-rot scalar -45.

    Cheers, and thanks again.

    Post edited by stitlown on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720
    edited January 2

    stitlown said:

    Thanks for the super-fast come-back, Crosswind, but it appears I'm still not understanding. Maybe I stated the issue poorly, so let me try again.  And I have possibly made it more complex because the x-rot is actually done by another property, which B is manipulating. But for the example. let's just say F = x-rot.

    So. 

    1. When A and B are both zero - F needs to be zero.  
    2. When B is zero, whatever value A  takes, F still needs to be zero.
    3. [there's a minor complication we'll ignore that as B travels from 0% to 100% F is ERC Keyed to give an illusion of bounce-on-collapse.  But let's just look at the end state].
    4. When B is 100% and A is zero, F is 100% == x-rot -45deg

    I have the above working. But

    5. When B is 100% and A is 100%, I need F to be 127% == x-rot -57deg

    6. and When B is 100% A is -75%, I need F to be 80% == x-rot -36deg

    What I am not "getting" is how to make F a different value conditional on the value of A and B combined ie  the second part of F= A + .267 * A  * B  (if I've done the formula right).

    In my set-up, I can manipulate either the property F, which manipulates the x-rot, or I could work on the x-rot directly.  Stricly, property F isn't necessary. It was just done as a way-point in getting the articulation looking as it should and is nothing more than the x-rot scalar -45.

    Cheers, and thanks again.

    Oh, a bit complex... but you may set them up according to the attached screenshot, i.e.: A still goes to 1st Stage Controller of F (X Rotate)... while B goes to 2nd Stage Controller... as a Multiplier. Then set different values with ERC [Keyed] for A. This is the way of multi-dimentional control.

    Pls let me know if there's further complication ~~

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    Thanks heaps.  I'll have to digest, and experiment ... in the morning.  Cheers. Lx

  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    Thanks again, Crosswind.  I got something to <mostly> work, but for reasons I don't fully understand.  A bit like quaterions which I can work with but only through brute trial and error, not actual understanding.

    If you have time / interest, I'd be interested in your critique of my near solution.

    The scheme you proposed again locked one of the independent properties, which didn't achieve what I needed.  My solution - using maybe more useful property names was ...

    Property "Operate" collapses the prop to the ground - 0% is upright, 100% is collapsed. Because of the articulation on the prop, it works, keyed, on 3 sub properties that control the actions of different components of the prop.  One of these is the prop-stay x-rot which triggers at .05, hits the bottom at 0.75 but bounces twice to settle finally at 0.95 (ie fully collapsed but bouncing / settling before the rest of the prop has fully collapsed).

    Property "HeightChange" independently adjusts the height of the top of the prop through morphs on five different components of the prop.

    All sub-components above are 1st state, either scaler or Keyed as needed.  When HeightChange is 0% the prop property Operate works exactly as I wish.

    The almost 100% solution is a new property "HeightOperateFixer" that works 1st stage keyed on prop-stay x-rot and is 2nd-state multiply in Property "HeightChange".  For reasons I don't understand, it operates opposite to the others (ie when Operate is 100% and HeightChange is 100% it is -66.7%, and when Operate is 100% and HeightChange is -75% it is +50%.  It appears relevant that HeightChange's range is -75% to +150% so at +150% HeightOperateFixer is -100%.  But it does the basic job which is to be zero when "Operate" is zero and to respond linearly to HeightChange when HeightChange is non-zero AND Operate is non-zero.

    I can then tweak its keys to adjust the prop-stay x-rot so that the end result is <near enough> correct in the range of HeightChange of -75% to +100% and not too far wrong when HeightChange is greater than 100%.

    For my purposes, this will do me, even though it is not quite perfect.

     [Note to self - it appears HeightOperateFixer's Daz controlled range is +-100% at the largest range of the Property to which it is 2nd Stage.  Other Note to self - make hidden as user shouldn't need to operate this property.  It is not locked by DAZ, which was one of the issues I was having in previous attempts at a solution].

    Thanks again for taking the time to look at my challenge and for the hints given along the way.

    Cheers, Lx

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720

    Well, maybe you can post a screenshot ~~ In most cases with which folks would like to help, a screenshot may be much better than hundreds of words ~~ blush

    And I don't understand what you mean by "the scheme you proposed again locked one of the independent properties"... there's no property locked in it. So what is it ?

    Anyway, I tried to follow what you wanted, made an example in which my proposed way 100% works as per the settings you expected. A short video: https://mega.nz/file/zDxwRKpT#EYRNWnlO2GoJy1XIbJshD6MDLFy_ecuxGp9NYyKZD18

    ERC mechanics actually are no mystery... no matter how many props you have in the scene that need to participate in ERC links, there're just 2 stages control plus proper type / value setup.

    Besides, that HeightOperateFixer you added seems redundant to me... what did you need it for on earth ?  As for "operates opposite issue...", as long as you set correct +/- for value settings in Keyed range, the results shouldn't be wrong...

     

  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    I'm in awe of your speed and fluency, Crosswind.  I tried to more-or-less reproduce your example to see where I was going wrong / not understanding, and it's taken me half a morning.  And apologies that my "style" is more word based.

    This is sort-of your set up - that  the base is 4x parent-child objects not one boned figure is the main, and possibly a relevant difference - I don't know. This arrangement is nearer to my problem prop than is a boned figure.   I haven't got to rotating the torus because I got stuck on the "locked" issue.  The 2 shots show: #1 the scene tree, viewport and parameter tab (with 2x properties); #2 the property heirarchy.  I believe I've set up the ERC scheme simlar to yours ie porperties of the group operating on the x-rot of the torus.

    The "lockout" is that on this arrangement (1st stage "height", 2nd stage "operate"), the "operate" slider is locked to me - I cannot change it.

    If I swap the two properties' arrangement (ie 1st stage "operate", 2nd stage "height"), the "height" slider is locked to me. 

    This was the "locked" issue I was trying to describe in the earlier posts - in those set ups, the locked property could be made to operate with one of the other properties but was locked to user operation in the GUI. Happy to send a .duf if this isn't something you've seen before.

    Hope that explains the "locked" issue. Cheers, Lx

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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720
    edited January 5

    Well, I just use a rigged Figure rather than a Prop in the example, but the mechanism of ERC should be always same.
    (I ever make that "folding figure" for a folk in here, I just downloaded it from the forum to make this example... https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/689376/)

    I'm sorry that I still don't understand the "lockout" issue... why couldn't you change / dial the property Operate which is just set as a 2nd Stage Controller ? This is the simplest way to make it work as per you "multi-dimentional control" requirement.

    This is the very same way like using a character's Head Morph / Body Morph at 2nd Stage to trigger character's specific corrective morphs dialed...  while Head Morph / Body Morph are still freely dialable for any other purpose.

    But if you really don't like this way, you can freely create other properties to get it work... Only my "style" is that if I can use 2 properties to get job done, I never use 3 properties... haha blush

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    8sec screen cap attached showing that I can't operate the Operate slider (2nd stage in this set up) and I have no idea why.  If I remove it from the 2nd stage for the torus x-rot, it becomes GUI-available again.

    I have no idea why this happens.  It was part of the issue I was having earlier.

    Apparently you can't attach a vid here, so here's a temporary dropbox link to the vid.  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gsvehe1osudiddcv1kcr4/LockoutSmall.mp4?rlkey=vdjzjmhb8cmuew12j0izps7zp&st=qn0kiqza&dl=0

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720

    Oh... have you set any multi-controllers at 1st / 2nd Stages of Operate slider ? Check its settings in Property Hierarchy...

    In general, if a Property has multi-controllers on two stages (or a single controller on its 2nd Stage...), this property is not dialable if its Controller(s) have no value. However, if a Property only plays as a Controller, it should be always dialable.

    Then, if you turn off Edit Mode, can you dial it? And with Edit Mode turned off,  can you see a "Chain Icon" on Operate slider when you hover mouse cursor on it ?  If you click the "Chain Icon" to break ERC Link, can you dial it ?

  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    Thanks again for all the input you're giving here.  Really appreciated.

    I don't know what you mean by "multi-controller" but here are 2 screenshots of all the detail for the "operate" heirarchy.  I haven't expanded fully for all the legs as it is the same as for leg1 and cube (with different scalar values).

    "Yes" to chain and "woo hoo" if I "break" the chain, the silder becomes available again.  This appears to be the case whether in edit mode or not.  The chain is not something I've had to consider before.

    I'll now move forward to creating the torus rotations, and if I can get that working, I can go back to my original prop issue.  I can see now that that all the chains are unbroken,  BTW, in my GUI the chains are always visible without any hovering.  Maybe it's a settings thing. eg I always have show hidden properties ticked.

    Thanks again.  Some progress (in both outcome and understanding). Cheers, Lx

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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720
    edited January 5

    Sorry, multi-controller (multiple controllers) means there're more than one controller set on a Property.

    You placed a Controller on 2nd Stage of Operate,  see below screenshot. For what purpose?  This setting makes Operate undialable. Only setting a Controller at 2nd Stage without any Controller set at 1st Stage is meaningless... the only effect is that it makes the Property "locked" aka undialable. In other words, Controllers at 2nd Stage should co-work with Controllers at 1st Stage.  And yea, with Edit Mode > On, all Chain Icons can be seen there ~~

    Edit: I'm not sure if you have it but I strongly recommend Tutorial DAZ Studio ERC Feature from AllStereo, which is very helpful. https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/81207/tutorial-daz-studio-erc-feature

     

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • stitlownstitlown Posts: 294

    Thanks - that appears to be the hole in my knowledge.  To be clear - The same controller has to be present at both 1st and 2nd stage to have effect.  I had skimmed that tutorial, or something similar, but did not pick up on some subtlties, obviously.  I will do so more diligently.

    Thanks again. Lx

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,720

    stitlown said:

    Thanks - that appears to be the hole in my knowledge.  To be clear - The same controller has to be present at both 1st and 2nd stage to have effect.  I had skimmed that tutorial, or something similar, but did not pick up on some subtlties, obviously.  I will do so more diligently.

    Thanks again. Lx

    Oh... no, the same Controller (Property) can be either at 1st Stage or at 2nd Stage, it cannot be at both stages. Likewise, a Property can be either set as a Controller or a Sub-Component... but cannot be set as both, i.e. circular link is not allow in ERC settings.

    Good luck !

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