Posing from scratch - some advices needed please
XoechZ
Posts: 1,102
Hello!
I am tired of using pre-made poses for my figures. It is boring and you rarely get what you really want. Of course you can try to tweak and change poses, but mostly this ends in a mess. And again, you rarely get what you really need. Especially when you do not need a "stand alone" pose, but one where your figure interacts with props (sitting, lying, leaning,...)
So I try to create my own poses. But I found out that this is really tough. Especially the hip seems to be a problem, because you cannot move or turn or twist the hip - this makes the whole body move.
My question to all advanced pose creators is:
Can you give me some tips and advices to learn posing from scratch? Where and how to start?
Thanks in advance,
XoechZ
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Comments
There's no secret, it is a learned craft. Practice develops technique. In no particular order.
Starting with existing poses will always be easier than doing a pose from scratch.
Some pose sets are more dynamic and interesting than others. These also tend to be PA products and more expensive. But well worth it. Poses sets that also include hand poses are worth while, because poses fingers can take longer than posing the entire body.
Poses made for one character can be used on other figures usually only requiring some rotational corrections.
You definitely want to pick up the free script (depends which version of studio you are using) It can save partial rotational poses.
PFE - http://www.daz3d.com/poser-format-exporter-pfe
Use partial poses to build full body poses.
Poses take time. You should start with a reference image and try to mimic the pose using it. Poses using the individual dial spins under parameters will be more accurate then trying to pull bones using kinematics.
Poses should always be made with rotational limits set ON.
The powerpose and puppeteer tabs in studio can be worth while because they can help control and develop poses. (Example: use puppeteer and two individual static poses, and generate an unique pose in between the two)
Learn to use the symmetry tab.
Sometimes a single frame of an animated sequence can give you exactly the pose you are looking for. Save the single frame pose.
We held a New Users Educational contest last year on the subject of posing.
You may find a few tips in this thread
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3450/
I'm not an advanced pose creator but here are my thoughts.
I use the Active Pose tool a lot. Typically I start by pinning one foot, then moving the hip and the other foot and pinning them when they are set up as I want and moving to the upper body. I usually finish by using the twist, bend and and side-side sliders on the neck and head to get the figure looking in the right direction.
If I am starting from the default pose I use the up-down sliders on the shoulders to get the arms down before I use Active Pose on them. I find it is a good idea to start with a preset pose similar to what I am aiming for.
P.S. Genesis is slightly different. I don't think you can actually move Genesis's hip in Active Pose but moving the Pelvis has the same effect.
what does the rotational limit do exactly?
I NEVER ever touch the hip on Genesis.
I DO add a NULL. Place it where the hip is supposed to be, and put Genesis, and everything fit to or parented to my Genesis figure under that null, name the null and save the character as a scene file.
If I need to move or rotate the figure, I move or rotate the null. For me, this keeps things organized and allows me to be able to quickly find things in a well populated scene.
I try to make use of the pose controls included with Genesis. Sometimes I create my own pose controls if I think I'll use them again.
KEY to how I pose figures:
The best single trick I can tell you is this: imagine the pose you want. Stand up, and put your OWN body into that pose. Focus on your body as individual parts as if you ARE Genesis.
Work from the root. Don't pose the fingers first and expect them to work right if they're in contact with an immovable object. Pose from the Abdomen if you're working up to the head or hands, or from the pelvis if you're working down to the feet.
Using your own body will help you understand how the figure works.
Poses can make or break an image cause if they do not look natural then it stands out like a sore thumb. We can easily detect when something "human" in appearence is fake cause it lacks the finer details that we all do and see but when it comes to reproducing it in art, we tend to forget those same details.
I started out the exact same way and when I did my first pose from scratch I remember it was really tough to do.
I dont know your background as an artist so what I am about to say may seem a little odd but please trust me.
Remember that DAZ Studio is just the tool that you are using to do your art. It will not magically make art for you or make it look good. The tools may no longer be paint and a canvas or a pencil and paper, but the foundational rules of art remain the same regardless of the tool.
So the first thing I would really recommend if you want to start making your own poses is to step away from the computer and take a moment to observe. Literally. Whether drawing the human figure or posing one in a 3D program, you cannot expect to have it look right if you dont first observe and understand how the human body moves. The best way I can think of that you could start learning to obseve and learn is to take a step back and do some drawing. Yes, drawing. Take a look at this tutorial here - http://warrenlouw.deviantart.com/art/IFX-Strike-A-Pose-163076761 - yes its about drawing but all the principals are the same, just the tool is different. Now you are going to need to draw from something so whether you outside and observe or use images off the net is up to you. But please, seriously take some time and go over that. Now I am not suggesting you learn to draw a very detailed human body, but instead learn the basics so that you concentrate on the pose insead of the final appearence of a drawing. Part of the reason why I suggest his tutorial is cause he does not go beyond the pose really. (btw, dont worry too much about perspective drawing. Perspective is automatice in 3D space)
Spend as much time as you feel you need on just drawing. As you start to understand a bit about the human body and how it moves then we can start looking at it in 3D. With the 3D human DAZ figures, when it comes to posing, the hip is your starting point. The hip is the pivitol center of the human body and it always moves, it is never perfectly zeroed. As you can see from the drawing tutorial. From there, I tend to work on the legs and then up on the torso and arms. I usally bounce back and fourth just to help myself visualize as I go along. With the Generation 3 and Gen4 figures, you have just the hip for that part of the body. in Genesis however, there is a hip and pelvis. The difference is that hip does what the hip does. The Pelvis allows you to move the hip area but only effect the legs. With hands, i personally find that Genesis has the best hands for posing since it has two extra bones in it to help create more realistic movement.
Now in DS you have several ways to adjust the pose, my personal preference is using the Node Selection Tool (the Arrow icon) and the rotation dials on the Parameter tab. Translation dials too. When it comes to moving the figure manually up or down, left or right, you can do so with the hip node but I highly recommend not doing it there. When you rotate the hip, it effects the results of the translation. So what was once forward or back now appears to move along a different axis. Instead it is best to do all your body translation at the base node, the figure itself. When it comes to moving around the scene and observing the pose, I find it best to use the Perspective Camera since its movements are not recorded in the Undo memory. Also, if you find an angle you like with your perspective cam, you can create new camera that copies that exact angle and continue on with your pose.
Eyes will need to be adjusted as well. instead of relying once again on other premade poses, I find it best to create a null and move it 5000 units in the direction I want the character to look. Then I select both eyes in the scene tab, go to the Parameter Tab and find "Point At..." and select the null I just created. Now you may not see the eyes look to it right away. In some cases a slider will suddenly appear on the Parameter Tab and you need to set it to 100%. The point of doing this is that it allows you to easily move your characters eyes around together and have it look as though they are looking at things. Plus you can adjust your pose and have the character maintain eye contact.
Simplest advice: use Puppeteer, best posing tool ever. Find, at least, two pose presets that are close to what you want to do, apply the presets in turn, make a point in Puppeteer for each pose, then interpolate between them. With more than two poses, the position of the dots becomes relevant, but I find I can make do with just two points.
I use pre-fab poses and modify from there.
I find it saves time and I get good results.
Some of the best vendors...
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=ironman13
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=Darkworld
.
I used to do my poses 100% from scratch, but it took a tremendous amount of time getting anything close to realism.
Best of luck!
Thanks for all your answers and suggestions. Very very useful information in here!
I just started doing poses entirely from scratch after a long time of using pre-fabs and modifying them - I usually start with the tilt of the pelvis (genesis) and then do the legs from the pelvis down to the toes, then I work from the pelvis up to the head, then I do the arms and hands last. I also - and this is the most important part, although it feels very goofy when you are doing it - assume the pose myself, as much as possible anyway, so I get an accurate sense of things like, when you are sitting cross-legged on the floor, which leg is underneath? And where are your elbows? etc. If it's something I'm not limber enough to do, I google for pictures of someone else doing it.
I don't know about still poses, but for animation, I like to "Point" the Pelvis at a Null (start it between the knees) after I have the feet (and maybe hands) pinned where I want them. Then you can move the Null around and get some Hip action (this is Genesis, not V4).... The Point trick works with the angle of the bone so you may want to display the bones as helpers. You can actually get some fun Mechanics going on in the viewport, Parenting this here, pinning this here then pointing this at that .... and moving stuff around. It works like one of those "better mousetrap" games. You won't be able to save this as a pose, as the mechanics depend on the Null, but you CAN animate the Null in the timeline, Puppeteer, and AniMate .. Works great for making animations .....
I'm not a pose creator but I'm with FisrtBaston when it comes to this tool PFE - http://www.daz3d.com/poser-format-exporter-pfe
At some point I bought a Pose set that was ALL partial poses. I liked it so much because I could build hundreds of different poses that I now take EVERY pose file I get in any pack and break them into partial poses. From what I have now, in my Pose Folders, I can make almost any pose I wish with just a few well chosen clicks. Yes it takes time to save them but once your done you have more than you ever thought a few poses could ever give you. This works very well for me and hope others find out just how well it works.
luck has it, just now i found a 1 hour long video-seminar about posing !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIvBvE5_g30
Poser Webinar : Artistic Posing Techniques for 3D Human Figures
by
contentparadise
Cool, thank you! I will watch asap.
I must try this. Any chance we can see a tutorial on how you work? It sounds fascinating, but I'm not sure I understand it fully...