Question about Leo 7 Morph
Serene Night
Posts: 17,675
Hi:
I have a question about LEO 7's body morph. Of all the Gen7 guys he has height baked in to his body morph. Is there a way to counteract this. I like the shape of LEO's body but I don't want to change my character's height Any tips on counteracting that?
I don't like using the height morph... Because I like the proportions of the character. Just don't want him that tall. Can I turn off the parameter some how?
Post edited by Serene Night on
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Comments
All of the Daz original characters seem to change the height of Genesis 3 Male. Lee is shorter, the others that I have are taller. If you don't like the height morph, you can try scaling in the General section of the Parameters and sale the whole character.
Edited to add: If the head gets too small, you can use Head Propagating Scale morph to enlarge it.
No : The body morphs shouldn't t change height. I'm using the body only morphs. Leo's does. If you choose the character and just dial in the body of Gianni, it will only put the shape in, not the scaling.
Try it.
Leo's does though. Because height was baked into his morph. Unlikee Lee 7, Michael 7, Gianni 7, and Lucian, whose bodies when you dial in to the figure do not alter height of your character.
You are right. I must have been dialing the full character instead of just the body. I tried it again and I see exactly what you described. I guess you'll have to write a bug report. It certainly seems like an error. I wonder if they will fix it.
I like the shape but dialing a bit of Leo In can really distort your figures because if the baked height. It is frustrating because his body has a nice long lean shape and is useful genetically. A friend also says there is something crooked about Leo's ring fingernails too and his y trans value. I don't see that but will inspect tonight. I guess I'll submit a request after checking the nails and hips. But he has been out for some time. It is strange that this has been overlooked for so long.
It's not necessarily an error; this has come up before in relation to the full character. It was the way they wanted to handle Leo's height and stylization. (And, yes, they know that it makes his feet drop below the floor -- the Y-trans issue Serene Night mentioned -- if you dial him into an existing character.)
EDIT: Apologies, I just realized that I misread the original post and first responses, and that the issue is that the Leo 7 Body slider, by itself, DOES alter the height when it's dialed in. (A later post in this thread contains my original response, so I thought I should clarify here.)
I had thought that the Leo 7 Body slider only controlled his shape and not his height. I guess when I've wanted to use some part of Leo in another character, it's usually just his head, so I haven't run across that issue.
Yes, this is correct. When I do morphs for a character, I normally dial in the head and body so there is no scaling when I do my morph.
Why would they intentionally make Leo behave inconsistently with all the other characters released before and after Leo?
Cris, I'm not clear on what it is that you are saying is correct. I think you are saying the dialing Leo 7's body morph should not change the character's height. But unfortunately, Serene Night has discovered that the Leo 7 body morph DOES change the character's height.
Ah, I 've found the original Leo 7 thread and an answer that Daz customer service gave to BeeMKay about the scaling.
That sounds as though, if we looked at, say, Monique (who is six feet tall), that we might see some y-translation on her hip on her base character preset. Which I don't recall seeing, actually, but I'm not where I can look at her at the moment.
That also doesn't explain why Leo would scale when his body is dialed in separately. (Cris responded to an earlier version of my post before I edited; I realized that I'd misread Serene Night's original post and Barbuilt's response.) It also sounds vaguely as though Leo 7 Body was designed so that it couldn't work independently of Leo 7 Head without pulling in the scaling.
Monique 7 has no translation on hip or root. Neither does Genevieve 7, Teen Josie 7, Olympia 7, or Karen 7. Finally on Eva 7 I found a translation of 1.00 on the hip. Dialing Eva 7 body morph also seems to change the character's height a little bit, but nothing as drastic as Leo. I don't understand the need to make the body morphs behave inconsistently like that.
The deformation of Leo's fingernails is an outright bug and should be fixed. People probably haven't noticed, if it's not a huge deformation, because they don't necessarily pay that much attention to hands, depending on what the character's doing in-scene.
The height issue, unfortunately, probably won't/can't be fixed. Given that we're over a year in and I don't think Leo got any post-intro-period characters based on him, there's really no point. (I think, but will not swear, that of the males, only Michael, Kimo, and Lee got characters based on them after the first month. Not sure how far post-intro that Ragnar for Gianni 7 was, but he's the only non-intro-bundle Gianni guy. And he's an illustration of how things should work, because he's a wee tiny thing for a Gianni guy; he doesn't have any of Gianni 7's height scale.)
Eva was the first post-Victoria female, and Leo was the first post-Michael male. I wonder if maybe this was a change they were considering that got abandoned, since it never got picked up for any other figures.
I hope the body morph can be fixed so it doesn't include height.
I think there is a point.... leos genetics are useful to create a certain body type and look handsome mixed with Michael or other males to make a really cool body type. Yes I can use workaround like the hfs scaling morphs to prevent the body from outgrowing the head but I shouldn't have to... the bod should work like the other males in the series. It isn't that unique of a shape like ogre or something at least that I can tell to require exemption from body scaling rules?
After doing a bit of tinkering, I'm wondering if they actually can pull the height out of the Leo 7 Body slider. It contains *ALL* of his height; it's not just a little bit of it. His control slider probably does nothing at all for his height and scaling; it's all in his body. If you use the control slider to dial in his body and head simultaneously, then dial out his body, he shrinks, which means there's no scaling at all called by the control slider. If that's the case, it wouldn't be possible to fix it without rebuilding him and just making him shorter, period.
For that matter, I tried dialing in the shape, then using the G3M Body Morphs height slider to make him shorter -- the difference is roughly 6%, I think -- and that worked, but it did nothing about the weird y-translate.
Even allowing whatever decisionmaking went into putting all of Leo's height in his body slider, I don't understand the point of the y-translate thing. I mean, why would you need to move the body around to allow the head to work independently? They didn't need to do it for Gianni, and he's only an "inch" shorter than Leo.
I like Leo, but he is very confusing.
Oh, and I didn't see any deformation of his fingernails, either with the body alone or with the full control slider.
Yeah, I don't see the nail thing either, but I've asked my friend to send me pictures. He's very observant about details, often more so than I. I checked out the nails but don't see anything amiss- unlike Lucian who had the weird nail bed issue which he also spotted.
I don't understand the y-translate thing. What effect does it have. Is it making him float higher?
In general I wonder if Leo's body was built by someone else. The bod is great but really not a hugely different body type... Should not require too much special treatment unless it was built and stretched rather than designed longer.
Okay This is what I see with Leo's nails. I think maybe the texture is a bit off around the nail beds. It also looks like someone applied messy nude nailpolish to his fingers and got in on the cuticles.The big toe looks funny to me. The bed is off there. Looks like a female toenail resource was used to make these nails, or Leo has gotten a recent amateur pedicure.
To the extent that I understand what's going on, it looks like when Leo was built, the way they handled his scaling, they needed to change his y-translate to keep his feet from punching through the "floor" when he got taller. If you use the Ctrl-D "drop to floor" on Leo, his feet actually do drop through the floor grid.
You might be wondering, why was that necessary when it wasn't necessary for Gianni, who is only an inch shorter and who came out only a month later. And that ... would be a very good question to which I suspect we'll never have the answer.
Ah, I haven't tried Leo specifically. I hadn't noticed that they changed things as in the past, scaling wasn't applied only when the full morph was applied and not the separate head and body morphs. Hmmm.
Nail in question
Well, I've tried using G3M Body Morphs and Shape Shift to see if that would work for maintaining Leo's shape but making him shorter. And it does, more or less -- you can pull varying percentages out of his torso, thigh, and shin, depending on whether you want him long in the legs, long in the torso, or more balanced -- but because of the way he's built, making him shorter actually makes the Y-Translate issue worse, if you can imagine. You'd think making him shorter would make it possible to zero that out, but when I pulled 30% of his height from his shin, thigh, and torso, his y-translate value went from 13.00 to 13.56. Granted, really only marginally worse, but however Leo was put together, it's actually sensitive to his proportions being altered.
Ingenious, yet very strange.
The issue also affects the other characters from the Leo 7 pro bundle, understandably. Not sure if they have the offset nail issue, but they probably should.
Wow. That seems a shame that the height is baked in like that, to make it so hard to just use the body properly. That is a phenomenal amount of sleuthing you've done though.
Quite impressive I must say. I hope it can be fixed. I Still would like to dial in a bit of LEO to my men, without having to scale the heads up. I like mixing and matching genetic with the bodies to produce different looks.
Not good. When I buy products, I expect consistency, and I should NOT have to tinker with morphs and dials to get a character to behave the way other characters do. It's expected that they do.