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That was freaking funny as hell :lol:
Greetings,
OMG! We need a +1, or a Like, button on these posts! :)
That was epic...
...so is 'rotting badger' the new 'toast'?
-- Morgan
:coolcheese: For kicks I was thinking that I would mock up a website parody of "DAZ Store 3.0" complete with a full page I-Frame to a sneak peak of the new store at this link: http://web.archive.org/web/20110706033416/http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/all-products-promotions?cat=1068
but... who wants an cease and desist injunction filed against them? ;-P
OMG! We need a +1, or a Like, button on these posts! :)
That was epic...
...so is 'rotting badger' the new 'toast'?
-- Morgan
It would be nice to have a like button or some sort of rating system, of course after the important things are resolved.
Stop harassing DAZ about fixing this site...
...so you can START harassing them about getting this version working BEFORE they move on to the next iteration of the eternal beta.
Ah, I see you're familiar with the way the software industry works. Although, as not all managers understand, stabbing and strangulation can flow both ways.
Or indeed can originate from the forum team. Not that i wish to lend any credibility to the outrageous rumours about our attempting to hire a hit squad, our request for photos of the web team was entirely unconnected with the trip to Atlantic City.Would you like the number to Peter DelaSangre?
Nyah, better not. Peter's good at terrorizing, but he tends to kill them imediately after--which, if one takes the time to consider, really loses all the effectiveness of terrorizing someone. The point of terror is to leave them alive--but afraid--to give them time to think upon their fear....
GIVE THEM TO ME!:coolgrin:
Ah, I see you're familiar with the way the software industry works. Although, as not all managers understand, stabbing and strangulation can flow both ways.
Or indeed can originate from the forum team. Not that i wish to lend any credibility to the outrageous rumours about our attempting to hire a hit squad, our request for photos of the web team was entirely unconnected with the trip to Atlantic City.
The PA's plan of spreading rumors about the forum team seem to be working very well...*mwahahaha!!*
I just wanted to say "sticky tape" and "bubblegum" because nobody has said it for 2 or 3 pages.
I believe that you're wrong about that.
For users, the current state of affairs is frustrating. For DAZ, it's probably costing real money. The problems with the store are almost certainly having a measurable effect on DAZ's bottom line, with users unable to purchase or putting off purchasing until the store seems more stable. The 'half-baked' nature of the forums is another disincentive to spend time there, meaning that people aren't exposed to new products or involved with the DAZ community in the same way, again leading to loss of sales. If we could see the sales figures for online 3D vendors, we'd probably see DAZ's numbers taking a big dive, and some of their competitors perhaps picking up a bit.
So yes, it's annoying that things don't work right. However, for DAZ it's very much more than annoying: it's actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.
...and this is exactly what concerns me. Daz isn't an Adobe, Corel, or Autodesk. They are a small company and when small companies take a hit in the bottom line they tend to feel it a lot worse. This is a very serious situation that could have long lasting effects on the company's future and possibly survival.
Patience? I don't have any of that left.
Hmm. Need to learn how to render trotwood in DS4. But then, I have so many other things I need to do.
"We need to be Patient with Daz. it will all work out " Tap,Tap, Tap...:coolmad:
I don't consider myself patient, literally speaking. Weary acceptance, for 3 of the past 4 weeks.
it's a freephone number only for those in the US (and possibly Canada). For most of the world calling DAZ would be pricey, and inconvenient due to the time difference in many cases.
Canada, never thought of that. Yeah, Wikipedia says they usually are available to Canada.
No, we don't. Would we put up with this level of "service" from ANY other company? I don't think so.
...[OT for a moment] I feel the same way about our local transit agency where I live as they keep cutting back neighbourhood bus service while raising fares and building new light rail lines. I'm tired of watching the service I depend on becoming less and less dependable causing my commute to keep getting longer and longer while having to pay more for the inconvenience..
I think I've reached the last of the "eight stages of site change"... Indifference... I don't expect anything major to change anytime soon, most of the people who frequent DAZ, will eventually adapt to the problems, the ones who are too frustrated by the change will leave and eventually be replaced by newer people who don't actually notice or care about the annoying problems and are attracted by DS4 pro for free...
I think it has been almost a month since the change over, which is really kind of a long time to still see the level and types of problems still prevalent... I can't imagine at this rate, things going back to a "normal" level for at least another month or more... never mind all the the requests people have made for changes to things they don't like, but actually do work (in a profoundly awkward/irritating fashion)... I don't see those being fixed for months, if ever.
Whatever.
The Eight Stages of Site Change:
1- Patient Concern
2- Confusion
3- Annoyed Confusion
4- Frustration
5- Frustrated Confusion
6- Discontent
7- Disappointment
8- Indifference
I had patience with DAZ my first few years here, then realized this is SOP for DAZ, the way things are going is the way they have always gone, and I don't expect them to go any other way.
2 things I have learned
1. Don't buy any content the day it is released, give it at least a week.
2. Don't buy any new builds of applications till the .1 version is out.
I don't beta test for free anymore, tired of seeing all my effort go poof in the end.
I agree. I, like others, BOUGHT all of DAZ's applications and upgrades, but now, selling the 'genesis" line to new customers with empty runtimes seems to be their priority and by giving the apps to them for free, they hope to see "genesis" re-fits charge their coffers.
The way they have treated their older customer base this past month, the attitude of some forum administrators toward criticism, the lack of store and web support follow-thru, the lower quality PC models attached to membership, etc, will make more than a few of us rethink our involvement here. It reminds me of Netflix, still around but smaller though still arrogant.
I just upgraded my Poser app (after being more than a few versions behind) and find myself spending more time at RDNA and Rendo, if for nothing else but “eye-sore” relief over at their darker, less fatiguing websites.
I can relate to your frustration with respect to the store changes and the latest marketing scheme to discount products faster than they have a chance to be rendered, but what I don't understand is why the complaint with advancing development. Creating new content for the most advanced characters ensures broadest compatibility and allows for improvement. I see lots of new products entering store on a daily basis. Much of the content is cross-compatible. Its also easier for a content creator to make a legacy version from an modern generation tool set, than the reverse. Consider this if scenario for value; Purchase a new pair of designer boots comparable for a legacy figure. Great now you can use that with all compatible characters you have, but not new necessarily future figures that come down the line and perhaps it wont work so well even with a current generation Genesis figure.
However if you bought a new pair of boots for a Genesis character, you have lots of options today and more down the road. Now lets say you want it for M2 or even V 1, you can import the Genesis figure equivalent, pop on the boots, so they are sized right and export them ready for legacy models to wear. Even in Poser. You even can do it at multiple levels of detail which is awesome.
Its more likely that Poser and other apps become more accommodating of advanced features such as dynamic subdivision rather than reject the competitive advantage it affords. It takes a leader to start a chase, however the industry also recognizes that the market grows best when a convergence on standards and compatibility is achieved.
Good one, laughed so hard I had coffee come out my nose. I mean that was a joke right?
You said it!
Apparently our 7 to 8 years of forum membership have given us a bit more insight to what goes on here than some newer members realize. We (the "old ones") have the background to judge what is advancement since we have knowledge and working experience dealing with all the oldies (buggy versions, etc.). DAZ's market strength still relies heavily on Poser file compatibility and the members that "create" only in the "free" DAZ studio (the only program not acquired from another company) now add a free Bryce and free Hexagon to their toolbox and wonder why thoses of us that paid for version after version of undocumented progams, shouldn't be jumping up a down for 6 generation releases (V1 -V5 + genesis) of models with less and less backwards compatibility. Simple... the new placid customer base has no investment into their push button art form. I agree with your comments ssgbryan. My 11 TB (yes TB) of 3d CG content/works, still has uses for these sometimes faster solution apps and even my Zygote models still make it into our animatics!
I rarely have the time or ambition to rack up or brag about post numbers nor use the forum sigs for free multiple advertising links to my products, but I've been around a long time, and in my 40 years of programing, this mess, this poorly designed and tested site, is not getting a big wet, pass me the Kool-aid kiss. in a topic labeled "We need to be Patient with Daz. it will all work out" from me. Free software doesn't cut it for the tens of thousands who already put down cash for what is now given to newbies who tell us we got to all get along.
Sorry for the length of the rant, not the rant, just the length.
Is time to lay it on the table and measure up already? I know I am being a optimistic pest of late in here, counter to the new forums culture. First I was crying foul too here, then I drank more cool-aid. (Funny you say that, I used that line in another post similar to your position earlier this month).
I have been in 3D for 25+ years since my first Sigraph in '86 on using SG & Sun Sparc workstations. This April Alibre honored me (and my invention i suppose) as designer of the month. Employment focus more on design & engineering rather than animation, so sub-d and figure modeling has only been a couple of years. So I am a noob in figure rendering and animation and deserve to be corrected. However I too develop figures in Poser to ensure compatibility and frankly Poser 7 debut is what I started with - my kids wanted to do toon animation with Anime studio and one thing led to another. $20K in software and hardware later...what an adventure. Now my figure pipeline is Z-Brush > Poser split to DS4 and Low poly for game (ms3d & fragmosoft). I have different pipelines for static and constrained props.
However I find DS4 brilliant. I like Genesis, especially the the UI and the content & meta management and export-ability (FBX !!). I bought it too, back in Oct 2011 and even then found it at least as stable as EVERY version of Poser I tried. I swear at poser and swear by it as much. I find DAZ DS4 a brilliant design. I find the product life-cycle management and marketing perplexing. I think this is the greatest risk facing DAZ consumer confidence. This is especially damaging from the perspective of a business or professional considering the technology. However it seems the industry nice is playing field is warped, as SM too has counter intuitive marketing method too and has its own oddities to discourage consumer confidence, extended download service being one, lack of "factory managed" user forum another. Never understood that - selling s/w LICENSE TO USE, even manage your account but CHARGE for downloads in the future OF THE PART WE DONT OWN (code) and even on a "free" patch. Extended Download is not an account level service, its charge is per item, per revision patch. Think about that. As user only buys a license right to use the software, not "own" the software code. So why make the client pay more for re-downloading code we have he right to use for a project in the future. Its so absurdly sleazy method to extract $ is its incomprehensible. Why peeps don't bitchaboutdat more is beyond me.
WRT Genesis single mesh, with dynamic sub-D why not ? The main reason (I think) subtools/sub-meshes are employed is to overcome limitations with the system memory and processing capacity. Techniques like vertex painting & weight mapping show that ultimately you can assign and organize all mesh properties at the vertex level. It would make sense to move in this direction as computing power advances.
You don't explain why these are not advancements, only how its NOT BACKWARD compatible (out of the box). But the tools exist for the PA or even the technically inclined user to convert objects to each others figure. I see a lot of these UNIMESH converters.. so its happened before. It takes some time, and effort. However if there is a market and a buck to be made it will happen (retro conversions) as the Genesis markets starts to saturate. My experience is that things develop where the money flows.
I do publish my renders and 3D stuff in my hobby websites. I like dragging people away from this site and having the ability to influence with my signature. Its like a all american thing to market, publicize and hawk your sugar water. Kidding aside, I think publishing my family's creations in these goofy sites is just a fun way to keep busy and stay visible. My best site gets about 50 visitors a day, and ad revue at 50 cents a week doesn't come close pay for the hosting service. I just started the CJ affiliate thing this past month, see where that goes. Its really just a family hobby. The kids or wife chooses the site topic and theme and then we create stories, art and games around it and try to establish a community of interest. Something creative for a family of computer geeks to do I guess. But I do like the signature lines in forum posts and take advantage of it. I find a lot of gems and learn quite a few things from the incredibly talented community we have here.
Now about post counts - is that for distance or accuracy? :)
EDIT: I googled "animatics" hoping to see an indy short or gallery - instead came across a site with some interesting, networkable servo motors at animatics.com - cool.
...I have to concur with both ssgbryan and Moonglow. While maybe not as much a "lifer" here as some (only about four years now) I feel Daz has created a split in the community. I' have tried ver. 4 and find while rendering is faster, the UI is more complicated than previous editions. 3.1.2.32 came about the closest Studio ever became to being an actually stable application. Before that it was ver 2.3. I haven't bothered DLing 4.5 because of the issue with plugins. I have to agree that Genesis is not the "answer". Being one of the many who invested a lot in the Gen 4 models (and Aiko 3), I'm not about to toss all that aside to jump on the Genesis Express. In the time I have experimented with Genesis i'm not al that really impressed with it. Tried to re create my LeelaTeen character only to run into the same breast mesh distortion issues I originally encountered with V4. At least with Gen 4 I have Steph. as well as other morphs, which allow me to create teen and even pre teen characters.
In the last year I acquired PP2010 and 2012 (the latter to be installed on the new 64 bit rig) only because I won a copy of Poser8 in a challenge and was able to take advantage of significantly discounted upgrade offers. I must say that PP2010 behaves a lot better on my old 32 bit notebook than Studio 4 and in some cases even 3.x. Don't get me wrong, I still love Daz Studio as it was what brought me into the world of 3D CG but the application's instability is beginning to wear on me just a bit. I want an application I can depend on most of the time. I know that all software has its bugs and quirks (or there would never be the need for SPs and patches), but Studio appears to be more of prolonged beta test than an actual workable application as of late. Now I was willing to put up with that when it was free, but after shelling out my hard earned money for 3A only to find it was even more bug ridden at the time than it's (free) predecessor was a bit hard to take. Yeah, P7 and P8 had their issues as well but they were nothing we endured like Studio 3A.. When it appeared that finally Daz's flagship was about to achieve a useful levle of stability, it was abandoned for the current new version.
Now I'm already hearing talk of Studio. 5 while ver 4 is still basically a "WIP".
...you've got to be kidding me, right?
I like POSER AND DS4 (w/ Genesis) I just find them different flavors and use them as needed. I understand the main beef is that the Poser users feel the focus has shifted in their favorite content provider. Its not in as much for me about interchangeability as what I need when and how. I use many types of figures sometimes in combination in a scene. I use of my stuff in games/interactive media and plan leverage to take advantage of the DAZ indy game license. That is something I cant do with many other content providers products. I am finding DAZ better and quicker workflow (decimate , texture atlas , PS for seam retouch) with the FBX & Collada. I find the DS collada just as effective in Vue as the PZ3. I do find the PZ3 scene refresh causes crashes if a Vue node is updated so end up exporting as .dae anyway. It saves the animations etc. FBX & .X is more flexible for game engine figure & animation import. The Poser to BHV is not bad but requires more effort because you need to reattach the BHV rig to obj groupings to use in the 3d game engine. I have not tried PoserFusion, I figured it is a direct integration similar to GOZ rather than file type export plug in. If the PoserFusion exports FBX or even 3DS, I would really consider it. It has made me look more than twice at Lighwave. But in the meantime I got used to the convoluted Z-Brush sculpting and painting methods. RE Mac, or PC... I guess I just find them different flavors and use them as needed. :) All just another tool in the tool box.
...I guess what some of us are on about is that Daz needs to slow down a bit. Rolling out a shiny new version of a product before it is ready is not a very sound business model in the long run, especially when it is your company's flagship offering. Contrary to a popular soft drink company's assertion about the value of "Image", in this biz it is "everything".
If people get the impression that the product being offered is unreliable and in a constant state of flux, they will begin looking elsewhere.