Critique Request: Why did this image bomb?
Defenistrat
Posts: 68
Hi all,
So a couple of weeks ago, I posted this image:
(Image resized. Please limit width to 800 pixels.)
And now I am risking the most severe form of emotional punishment by asking the internets "What's wrong with it?"
I don't want to sound whiney or anything, but the only person who liked this image in the galleries was me (I like my own images so I can rank them amongst all the other images I like, and I view it as a way of priming the pump. Feel free to judge me for that). I mean, I have posted some images that when I look back, are pretty sub par, but they usually get at least a handful of likes.
I don't have any delusions of grandure. I know that not all of my work is golden (ok, I know that none of it is). But I don't think this is the worst one in my gallery.
All complaining aside, I am thinking of redoing it. However, I would like to get some feedback first. This was orignally supposed to be for last month's new user contest, but I struggled with the image so much that it wasn't done in time. Neither was it in a state to post in the WIP thread during the time frame of the contest.
Thank you for your time and thoughts. They will be greatly appreciated.
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Comments
Hey, it may be the forums acting up, but I am not seeing an image. May want to reload. And you do know the site is having issues, including some gallery ones from what I've read, so people may have not been surfing those as much. (I don't at all.)
Well, right now, the image isn't even showing. There's only that little x - icon for a broken link. But that might be due to the problems DAZ has been having lately. Maybe it shows up later? But until then, I'll share some of my own thoughts.
Many are the times I've scratched my head over why some images end up on the most popular banner while others get only a few likes. Going through some 10-20 pages of the gallery, there will many great looking renders with just a few likes. I think sometimes, some are just lost in the crowd, so to speak. But it's hardly the full explanation. But I have long since given up on trying to understand what gets successful and why.
Of my own renders, I've certainly been disappointed at times when a render I've felt particulary satisfied with has ended up with just one or two likes in the gallery. Even if I do my renders just for my own sake and knowing that I in many ways still am a noob at this, there's always nice getting recognition from others.
As for giving my like to anything in the gallery, I am very selective. It has to be something that really blows me away, or in some other way has something really special. I think that is how most of us do. Then what that something really special is, most of us probably have different opinions on.
I don't see a render either, so probably redpost it.
The average of votes I get is 4 or 5 ( and yes I vote for my own images as well, basically because I do like my works). When I'm lucky I get 8 or 9, the most votes I ever got were 11. The same render over a dA could have a completely different reaction from others. The render with the best reaction ever over on dA got 5 votes here (including mine).
It can be frustrating, I know. It can be frustrating over on dA as well. Sometimes its just bad luck. i once posted a render to the gallery and about 5 minutes later somebody had loaded a whole batch of renders and mine was already on the second side... means lost. Sometimes its just that the colour scheme of a render is close ot 4 or 5 next to it and there is a half nakes chick in bright colours close.. guess who gets the votes. Sometimes you post a bright coloured render and there is half a page of bright coloured renders and one moody, guess who gets the votes. Selection of the thumbnail is a tactical thing which can fail a good work and boost a poorly done one.
I've been asking myself many times whats wrong, usually nothing, just the competition is outstanding. We are flooded with images daily. the average thumbnail has one second of the viewers time to catch the eye. if you won that, there is a critical time lapse of three seconds. if interest is still there it's likely the thumb will be opened and once you got that, chances are good you get a vote.
I try to vote often even on renders that don't hit me dead on the first look but where I think is a good mood, or a creative idea or a well done portrait ( other than half naked chicks), just to give people a motivation booster.
I typed the username into the artist field in the DAZgallery and found these. Your art looks fine.
The first impression of an image happens at thumbnail size it needs a focus for the people viewing them to click through. If you're looking for a reason why there are no votes, Does your thumbnail generate interest to click through?
Well, I figured out part of the problem with the image. The screenshot that FirstBastion posted of my gallery does not have my image in it!
I looked at the image again, and it seemed to have all the right settings, I have no idea why it wasn't showing up. However, if I looked at this thread while logged out, I could not see the image either.
So I just reposted it. I reposted it and updated the link in this thread, and then I logged out and I verified that I could see the image both here and in the gallery.
So biggest critique is, "I can't see it". Probably the easiest to fix, too. :D
I'm hoping the image will do better this time around, but I still think there are issues with it. I'm like you, @Linwelly, I usually get 4 or 5 likes per image, and I am totally ok with that.
Anyway, I tried some new things on this image. I have already learned new things in the last couple of weeks since posting this image. I do think I might redo this some time, and since I've already put this out there, would still be interested in knowing if the things that bug me are the same things that bug you guys, since I have seen you all in the forums (or store) and would would think highly of your opinions.
Thanks!
Image invisibility aside, I really like what's going on with the girl and her whips, or spaghetti light sabers. Everything looks right about that part, including the glowing spaghetti circle that leads to the enemy in the center.
What I don't like is the enemy itself, he's very hard to make out, just a blob of orange and green glow, maybe a light from some angle casting some shadows and giving it depth would help with making it easier to read his shapes.
I also find the background to bright. The Facades do the job but they're not exactly pretty and detract from the action, so I would let them be darker. Reducing the range of the light sources might do the trick. I'd let the characters stand out and reduce the brightness of the facades by half.
I imagine it's 3Delight not Iray, so the whips aren't actually casting any light... so I would place 3-4 small purple lights around the whips to simulate the light they emit on the girl and the robot, and get rid of the light responsible for all the whitish light that washes everything out.
You seem to have an orange light behind the girl that feels like an explosion might be there, which I'd leave there.
In the very back around the top of the image there seem to be some vertical beams (or trees ?) with some orange'ish light (or sky) behind. After making the background darker in general, I'd use that light back there to give a hint at the depth of the area and maybe make it a bit stronger and let it bleed over the facades in the back just a little bit and place a light of the same color behind the characters (behind, a bit above and a bit to the right side of the image) which would give that glowing robot a bit of a rimlight similar to the image below. The light from the back would always be weaker than the lighting coming from the front.
Anyway, those are probably the first things I would try myself, then tweak from there.
I really like the sense of action I get from this. The one thing that really stood out for me was that the hero and the villain blend together a bit and its hard to tell which is which. Sometimes, you can fix this by rotating the camera just a bit. Doesn't have to be much but its an easy way to try without actually changing a bunch of other stuff first.
Edited to add, I have never been able to figure out the gallery image likes and views myself. As Linwelly said, I can get a widely varied response depending on where I post it. One thing does great on DA and nothing here or vice versa. I go and browse whenever I load one of mine up but don't always look every day. And I too like my own images. If I didn't like them I wouldn't put them up lol.
Regarding likes and dislikes - we can never really predict what other people will like. And with online galleries, the number of recorded "likes" something gets is a pretty flawed metric, because not everyone who enjoys an image is going to give it a virtual thumbs-up. With a lot of likes, the subject matter seems to be just as important (if not moreso) than the technical quality of the render. But you probably already knew that.
As far ar "improving" the image, I can offer a couple of suggestions as long as you don't feel like they are anything other than suggestions. Rules are made to be broken and all that. :)
I would have liked to have seen more of the heroine's face. It's hard for me to relate to her when she's mostly turned away from me and is upside down. I also think the background needs to be toned down with either a shallower DOF or perhaps some motion blur. That's a great set of props you've got there, but they especially compete for attention with your robot antagonist. While you're at it, to accentuate the swirling motion of the heroine (which is the main impression I get from the render), you might want to set the background slightly askew and/or use a wider focal length lens.
Now that the image is showing, I do believe I recognize it from the gallery.
I think the bright swirly things (which on closer inspection turns out to be whips) are stealing all the attention. They make it hard to really see anything else if you're not taking a moment to focus. So that is probably where you lost me in the gallery.
Upon closer inspection, the hair is wrong. She is upside down, but the hair goes down (or in this case, up) her back as usual. Though, looking at the buildings, I'm not sure which way she really is turned. Second thing, I don't know if it's a light, or a shadow, or a wardrobe malfunction, but on the inner side of her right leg (the one to our left) it looks like a big square shaped poke-through.
It's a cool idea though.
On first looking at it, it took several seconds to get any idea of what it was depicting.
Looking at it again, I think I know why. The bright purple swirl and the bright green spots draw all my attention, making it hard to process what the figures are. It also doesn't help that the woman is in such an unusual position, or that her clothing and the machine's body are so close in color that it's hard to make out where one ends and the other begins. And even though I've figured out more or less what the scene is, I still can't tell anything about the machine other than that it's a machine - I can't tell what sort of machine it might be, much less what shape it is or what it's doing.
I know a lot of people have mentioned her position but I honestly love the perspective and the fact that she is upside down. If you can figure out how to keep that perspective and separate her just enough that she is more easily seen, and test out some of the other advice (keep what works for you, don't worry about the rest) you will have a very cool image. I can see what you are going for and think it will be very cool.
I kind of like the picture, but I, also, had a hard time focusing before it made sense to me, too. I don't remember seeing it in the gallery at all.
I'm horrible when it comes to critiquing pictures. Most of the time I'm never sure what it is that I like about a certain image even my own. It is nice getting those likes, though. It kind of gives you a sense that you are getting better at what you are doing. But, trying to figure out why one picture does better over another will drive you crazy. I know it does me, at times.
As for the gallery, that's a tough nut to figure out. I'm never sure why some images seem to do well while others that I think are better seem to get no likes. On my own pictures, I usually average around 8 to 10 range. Some do better, up to 16 to 22, while I have some 2s or 3s on others. I seem to be all over the place. :) My most liked images have been the ones that surprise me the most. I've been on the banner twice now and both times they were with pictures that I loved, but didn't think anyone else would like. I never expected to make to that banner once, let alone twice. In fact, my first image to make it to the banner, even though I love it, I can look it at today and I can still see the flaws that I think I should have been able to do better, but I just didn't have the skills back then. And, to this day, it still gets a like once or twice a month. It is currently up to 48 which totally blows my mind when I see it. My second picture to get on the banner was recently and it topped out at 29 likes and managed to stay on the banner for the full month before aging out. While I love the picture, I thought I knew that it would do very badly in the gallery. It is an NPR type image which I've just recently gotten into doing and those generally don't do well with the gallery people. I don't know why. I love those types of images. I was positive this image would only get a couple of likes, but she proved me wrong. Sometimes, you really just can't predict these things.
My best advice is to make the art that you love. Improve your technique and composition, but make art that inspires you.