HDRI Environment Maps Image Zoom
I have been experimenting with HDRI backgrounds with some success the last couple of days all with outdoor scenes. When I trying using this image (8k version) https://hdrihaven.com/hdri.php?hdri=en_suite , the image is extrememly zoomed in. Ive tried every cobination of Finite and infitie Box and sphere, played with Dome height, width, depth. Pulling the camera back does not zoom out the image. Is there something that needs to be done differenlty when dealing with internal scenes?
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I messed around the other day and I have not found a satisfactory solution either. I'd be interested in hearing a solution.
Example these two scenes are made with the same HRDI and only the camera angle and position is different. The scale of the models used in the renders was not changed. In the first example the model looks slightly too small compared to the bricks in the street. In the 2nd example the models look like giants compared to the HRDI surrounds and I don't know how to scale the HRDI to proper size relative to the models, especially when changing the camera angle makes such a big change.
Is it possible it has to do with the world size?
Well nobody seems to know. I tried the Ground Texture Scale and that seemed to have no effect (that was Dome & Scene / Infinite Sphere).
So just now trying Dome & Scene / Finite Sphere and then setting Dome Scale Multiplier from 1000.0 300.00 to 20.0 to 5.0
Unfortunately for me, using Dome & Scene / Finite Sphere with an HRDI causes the rendered HRDI image to turn shades of green???
Now if you do the same but include /Ground then the bottom 50% of the rendered image will be more and more skewed to about a maximum of, I don't know 15 degree at the very bottom of the image.
Forget all that as I was trying to find parameters to use that worked I just encountered more and more quirks so I searched with Google and found this old thread:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54389/scaling-down-environment-maps-in-iray
It's not really a solution for the entire problem but it does list the 'gotchas' and how to make adjustments around those problems. I don't know what the technical requirements are to be an HRDI enviroment but it seems that such a HRDI should include the camera origin and all the geewhiz camera information for DAZ Studio to set up the render correctly and make adjustments for the scene included.
I once asked the creator of an HRDI if they could include compass degree markings, time of day, season, weather, and location of the earth on the rendered HRDI preview but they oddly felt that was unreasonable to include that information despite the fact that HRDIs are designed to let you render a scene in a game or 3D render without that guess work.
My own adjustments with the Dome Scale Multiplier had small effects on the scale and the Dome Radius scale from 500 to 10000 seems to have no effect. DAZ Studio crashed when I changed the Dome Radius to 10.
In the bit of messing around I have done with the scene of Willem Kuyperstraat I can only recommend moving the characters and scene models (and scaling those models) and camera(s) around until they are placed so that the scales of the HRDI seem to match with the models. Ideally at a distance and scale such that there is no blurring in the HRDI for the most realistic renders.
You, and I am going to try this too, can also scale all the models to match the HRDI scale better. In my messing around with the HRDI parameters so far I think that's what I would do if I was you.
So I would setup HRDI scenes in two phases.
Phase 1:
a) Partially, (because this is slow work) render the HRDI at the default position and parameter to see what it looks like. Have one model in the scene but don't bother dolling the model up yet til you have a view of the HRDI you like. It's mostly to appraise scale and lighting on the model.
b) Repeatedly change the Dome Orientation & partially render until you find a lighting angle and a HRDI view angle you like. Unfortunately the prettiest HRDI Dome Orientation and the prettiest lighting cast on your model might not always match.
c) Now once you have your Dome Orientation selected is the HRDI render blurred? Either adjust the Dome Position in the X, Y, Z as needed or adjust your camera settings until the blur is gone on the HRDI render. On scenes of forest, oceans, and mountains in the distance unsually you won't need to do much but for indoor scenes or scenes on city streets maybe a lot of adjustments.
d) Is the HRDI not to a good scale compared to the model in your scene? Rather than mess with these parameters talked about in the other thread and this thread here I would just change the scale of your scene models to approximately match the scale of the HRDI as the easiest and most predictable way to correct that.
Phase 2:
a) Create your scene as you usually would & save & render & I think you are done.
The screen shot ive attached to my original message is with the defaul position and parameter. I dont dotn even have the option of scaling my models, as I cant zoom out of the scene any further, I only get the the top of the bathroom sink. So I wont be able to scale my models to match that. BTW I also see the shades of gree you are talking about.
For the shades of green read the thread I linked to it says how to rid them. I have downloaded the HRDI you linked to and will try it out and tell you my results. Please wait a while though before I am done.
The HRDI that you included a portion of in the 1st post looks focused though.
OK great, thanks.
Try changing the focal length of the rendering camera. For the top view looking down on the character try 30/40mm, I would also try that with the indoor scene in the OP. For the couple try 100/150mm. The problem though is that the view you are trying for with the takes the camera below the ground and you wont see anything above the ground other than the HDRI background.
OK, so I dorked around with the 1K version of the HRDI you have and it looks like the HRDI itself internally might be incorrect. I know practically nothing about the specifications of this format and if DAZ Studio implements it all and does so correctly and whether, as you'd think, a correctly created HRDI would allow DAZ Studio to autofocus it's SW camera according to the location you placed your camera at in the HRDI scene. Actually as that makes sense to set up your scene with your DAZ SW camera automatically at the same X,Y,Z of the HRDI camera I need to try & figure out how to do that in DAZ Studio.
Anyway, after choosing the correct resolution for my render as for a 1K HRDI (there are so many little gotchas to watch out for with these things) I started getting similar results as you get. And DAZ Studio seems to have been told by the HRDI you have that the bathroom is much vaster than it really is and that the floor level is the sink. That may be because my DAZ Studio SW camera is not at the X,Y,Z of the HRDI camera. I will try that soon.
You can see how tiny my model is and I tried Infinite Sphere, Finite Sphere, Finite Box and various scaling (on some of those not all of them). To me, you have a HRDI and it should have the information for the HRDI SW to construct a sphere or box using that information.
Finally I did change the HRDI from Standard (Spherical) to Latitude - longitude but it didn't noticably alter anything. I would have thought that that information was recorded in the HRDI file.
I would ask the business that make the HRDI to either explain the proper settings to use in in a program like DAZ Studio or give you a refund.
So I have tried in the Finite Box to 305cm W x 243cm H x 457cm D which is a guess at a bathroom at 10' W x 8' H x 15' D and moved the DAZ SW camera to X, Y, Z of 0,0,0 which is the X,Y,Z of the HRDI Dome Origin.
And then I set the DAZ SW Camera to Focal length of 7mm and Focal Width of 10mm which really I don't think cameras do and I don't know anything hardly about cameras. it's maybe like using macro settings for a regular picture - it's not going to work too good. That makes the camera work more like your eye would in a bathroom if you cropped out your peripheal vision but it's not really correct.
Maybe buy or find free a bathroom model and use the lighting from the HRDI for that model bathroom after positioning the model bathroom's light fixtures to be in the same approximate orientation and location as the HRDI's bathroom light fixtures as much as possible.
Maybe there is a way to adjust DAZ Studio or the HRDI itself to make it work nice with that picture set but I've tried what's reasonable without embarking on a career as a professional photographer or 3D modeling professional.
I'd still ask for guidance from the HRDI creator or a refund.
"Maybe buy or find free a bathroom model and use the lighting from the HRDI for that model bathroom after positioning the model bathroom's light fixtures to be in the same approximate orientation and location as the HRDI's bathroom light fixtures as much as possible. "
This is what I will end up doing. I will probably not use any indorr HDRI images as backgrounds going forward until I figure out a solution. Thank yo very much for your help with this matter :)
They do make a good light source if you don't have water shaders but as I discovered recently a lot of HRDIs will not will with the default iRay shaders supplied by DAZ Studio for things like water. It was somewhat disappointing as there are some pretty nice HRDIs.
I will probably use some outdoor / indoor HRDIs as a generic backgrounds if i like them enough but use the DAZ Studio Sun-Sky for general ambient light and various point / spot lights as indoor lights. There are too many problems I'm encountering with these HRDIs to spend alot of time learning this tech only to find out many of them don't work or DAZ Studio don't work with them.
7mm focal length and 10mm frame width would be a submini camera like the old Minox spy camera. :)
Cool, very interesting and old camera.