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No, but Dimension 3D is working on an update for GenX. Unfortunately, the update will not be free.
Agreed Frank, and I think that is what most people are fearing. To most of us it is still a very viable platform that hasn't reached its potential yet, and if support for it from customers are still in great demand, we will still produce content for it.
...it's loss of support for the previous generation figures and their compatibility with G2 which is the concern I have. Daz already has pretty much shown their intent by not providing this capability (hence why V.2 for G2F is PA product) as they did with the original Genesis.
Greetings,
No, but Dimension 3D is working on an update for GenX. Unfortunately, the update will not be free.Why in the world would it be? Is it so 'unfortunate' that people want to be paid for doing things that are hard?
In a larger sense, I get that times are tough, but...times being tough for one person, or even many, doesn't mean that other people, or companies, should stop moving forward. If that were the case, we would not have...well, anything.
'Please don't grow feet! If you do, someday you'll use 'fish' as a verb!' said the fish to the first amphibian. ;)
-- Morgan
I totally agree with you and I have often wondered about the answer to that question my self.
I totally agree with you and I have often wondered about the answer to that question my self.
I have no problem embracing change and innovation, As a long time poser user i did just that with genesis which is my figure and now app of choice. i just don't see G2/V6 as a step forward since much of the innovation that G1 gave us is no longer an option or harder to achieve with G2. If the new iphone came out with a rotary dialer, no camera and no access to internet, you can bet a whole lot less apple fanatics would not be rushing to get their hands on it. I'm also pretty sure the new Caddy has all the same functionality the old caddy had and then some, so poor analogy.
I'm sure that somebody will still be making those fix morphs anyway.
No figure will ever be made that can't be morphed better, in my opinion. ;) Even a very good base figure can be improved. And the more a customer works with a figure, the more they will notice those areas of potential improvement, where the maker may not have been able to spend those weeks and months with the finished piece.
Apples to oranges here dude. I still get plenty of "support" with my vehicles from the 80's, and no, I really don't need any of that new fangled crap on them either :P I can do most repairs on them myself, not so on the 2002 beemer, even simple things like sparkplug changes are a pain in the ass lol.
Besides, we are talking about things not so old as 1954 here, we are speaking about stuff just a few years old. If ford dealership sold me a car, then a few years later told me they will no longer offer maintenance and repairs, to try and force me to upgrade to a new car..... Well let's hope they have fire insurance :P
Same with everything really, when I buy something, I take care of it, and expect it to last a while. Maybe you are fine with the model the computer software industry seems to run on, I am not. Keep bloating programs, because the newer computers can run them with their 16cores and 200 gigs of ram lol.
We spent a lot of money on genesis stuff, and if genesis were suddenly to become obsolete and unsupported so soon, yeah I would be pissed. The best thing about genesis was that we didn't have to wait for vendors to start supporting teens and kids, because they never will more than likely, and I could just use everything from the whole genesis line I already have for ones I made myself. I did the same with V4, but it was a lot more tedious. Having to use wardrobe wizard to fit the clothes halfway decent, then more often than not taking it into other programs to fix the mesh problems shrinking the giant boobs always caused etc etc. Genesis made the tedious work, not so tedious, and not as long and drawn out. Until G2 gets to the same point or better, I am sticking with my V4 characters and G1 personally. And as a carrara user, I am mostly still using V4, and grumbling about how no one ever supports carrara. Can't even use any of the bend fix stuff in carrara like poser and DS can. Oh well, I need to walk 30 miles to the store, uphill, with only one boot you whippersnappers. Peace :P
Ugh, are the smileys ever gonna work again. All the dead smileys are tongue sticking out guy, in case you can't tell lol.
Your analogy is way off from what is going on here. If people were saying "I'm unhappy with Genesis 2 because V1 is still plenty good enough then maybe your analogy would work. A better analogy would be if Someone who bought a 2011 Cadillac was being told they need to buy the newer 2013 Cadillac because it has a few minor improvements. Again the cars and 3D models don't really compare because people don't buy cars for the same reasons they buy 3D content and as such the expectations are entirely different.
No one is telling you you need to buy the new car though. And frankly I DO get messages every year from my car manufacturer advertising the new version with minor improvements. You never know I may have the money to reinvest in a car after two years, but it's not required.
And frankly I don't have the money to replace my car every year, but once I did exchange my car after 18 months. And it was partly due to my preferred car dealer messaging me with a deal for an upgraded model.
But analogies can only go so far really.
In a larger sense, I get that times are tough, but...times being tough for one person, or even many, doesn't mean that other people, or companies, should stop moving forward. If that were the case, we would not have...well, anything.
'Please don't grow feet! If you do, someday you'll use 'fish' as a verb!' said the fish to the first amphibian. ;)
-- Morgan
and some modelers make their work free for unrestricted use because they like to, in fact one of the greatest sets of morphs for V4 and Genisis are a free download.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/58061/
http://www.sharecg.com/v/58198/
If I could use content that I already paid for to work with something new I might have the insensitive to buy other products for that product. If I have to pay to use what I already use I might just stick with what I already use and disregard that new product.
"PAs won't have to make fix morphs" is an advantage to a new figure, not a drawback.
Not if it's a PA who mainly makes fix morphs, then one that doesn't need it is taking away his bread and butter. That wasn't exactly the point I was making though. The customers here have a herd mentality which is also part of why this end up being such a good release for Daz. So If I followed the herd and had a better figure that didn't need fix morphs then why would I buy Zev0's fix morphs he's released in the last month? Wouldn't it be better for Zev0 if Daz waited and allowed more of the customers wanting more realism, to buy Zev0's fix morphs and then release G2 at a later date when the sales of fix morphs has died off more? The people loyal to G1 likely already have zev0's fix morphs which may even add to their anger since they could have applied that money to buying the new figure rather then a fix morph the new figure might not need. Those who are fine with the new figure aren't likely to go back and buy zev0's fix morphs to make g1 more realistic because they can just use G2.
In a larger sense, I get that times are tough, but...times being tough for one person, or even many, doesn't mean that other people, or companies, should stop moving forward. If that were the case, we would not have...well, anything.
'Please don't grow feet! If you do, someday you'll use 'fish' as a verb!' said the fish to the first amphibian. ;)
-- Morgan
Why would it be? Because traditionally, updates, especially one for relatively minor changes have been free to customers who bought the original. Historically it's only major revisions that are more or less completely reworked versions of the original are what gets charged for. Apparently by your thinking you feel Smith Micro should force people to pay whenever they come out with a service release for Poser. Fortunately Smith Micro and many other creators of software don't see things the way you do.
Greetings,
Why in the world would it be? Is it so 'unfortunate' that people want to be paid for doing things that are hard?In a larger sense, I get that times are tough, but...times being tough for one person, or even many, doesn't mean that other people, or companies, should stop moving forward. If that were the case, we would not have...well, anything.
'Please don't grow feet! If you do, someday you'll use 'fish' as a verb!' said the fish to the first amphibian. ;)
-- Morgan
Why would it be? Because traditionally, updates, especially one for relatively minor changes have been free to customers who bought the original. Historically it's only major revisions that are more or less completely reworked versions of the original are what gets charged for. Apparently by your thinking you feel Smith Micro should force people to pay whenever they come out with a service release for Poser. Fortunately Smith Micro and many other creators of software don't see things the way you do.
And because you don't know how to do it, it must be a 'relatively minor change' for D3D to retool GenX to support Gen2.
I see.
-- Morgan
In a larger sense, I get that times are tough, but...times being tough for one person, or even many, doesn't mean that other people, or companies, should stop moving forward. If that were the case, we would not have...well, anything.
'Please don't grow feet! If you do, someday you'll use 'fish' as a verb!' said the fish to the first amphibian. ;)
-- Morgan
Because others in the thread for GenX and DSF toolbox keep asking if the upgrade will be free.
...yeah if I get a car, it won't be anything newer than 1975 as that is the cutoff here for DEQ compliance. Loved the old cars for if something broke, you went to the wrecking yard or parts store, bought a new part and were able to put it in yourself. Today, they should just bolt down the bonnet and put a warning on that reads 'No User Serviceable Parts Inside". One friend mentioned that if he even did his own oil change, it would void the warranty.
Getting to the main topic, my one other fear is that new character/clothing ccontent will be geared more towards G2F and not the Original Genesis. The same occurred with Gen4 after Genesis was released. Yes there was still some new content available, but pretty much support began to wane for Gen4 as it increased for Genesis. With G2F I don't see that trend changing at all. I will admit I am surprised that the reissues of AprilYSH's hairs are both Genesis and G2F compatible. But then again, we saw this in the early Genesis days where something had both Gen4 and Genesis fits/compatibility.
I guess it's a "wait and see" situation. Though maybe its time to really sit down and learn how to make clothing content just in case.
But please don't use my arguments as anti-genesis, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about genesis one support.
Ohhhhhh.......
OK...what?!?!
See... when you said this:
I really thought you were talking about "older" figures...
OK... you aren't seriously calling Genesis(1) an "older" figure are you? Cuz, I think at least PART of the complaining has been about the fact that Genesis is not that old...
People are not hesitating about buying for Genesis because it's an "older" figure.... *shakes head*
People who have not bought into Genesis are going to... what?? Suddenly want to buy Genesis 2 just cuz it's newer??
I'm guessing no.
OK... more of my worthless opinion ahead:
People who have not bought into Genesis have many reasons for not doing it. Some are just mad at Daz. Some are just not happy with how it works in their program of choice. Some just don't want to invest into yet another line of products that may be outdated in a year... there are other reasons, too, I'm sure...
But I promise you, they don't regard Genesis as an "older figure"
It's not because the products are bad either... The PA's are doing an awesome job of trying to be supportive of the NEW figure...
if sales are not stellar it's not because people don't want to support the PA's... it's because they don't want to support Genesis.
(See above as to why)
I don't expect that to change much with a new version.
Why?
Cuz the hope is that the "improvements" to the mesh are going to entice those who did not buy before to suddenly now want the "New... um... er... yeah... Newer" figure, is that right?
OK... um... if the customer never bought into Genesis... what would they have to compare the newer one to? I'm saying, if they didn't own the first one, they don't have anything to compare to for the newer one.
I'm guessing that those who buy/bought into V6 are those who already bought into V5 and the original Genesis, or they are brand new and just getting acquainted with Daz...
Those people who were not buying before... I don't imagine they will buy the new one either...
Advice for PA's:
Make what YOUR customers say they want... and don't worry too much about what Daz encourages and says they "would like" you to make...
after all... they are YOUR customers....
ok... end of worthless opinion....
Actually I do make what I want, however too many times you see posts where people say they want something, you give it to them and they either don't buy it or stick on their wishlists, so it ends up a waste of my time where I could be making something else. Even worse is when you provide something and someone says "I'll wait until it's 50% off." PAs don't create items for sale for them to be deeply discounted; that's also a waste of their time. They attempt to provide things that customers want at a price that they think is fair for the time they've invested in it.
That said, the last week there's been a lot of confusion about Gen2 and incorrect statements about being the end of Gen1 simply weren't true due to mass speculation and lack of information that really should have been more detailed so people actually understood what Gen2/V6 actually was... and because of that, a lot of people stopped buying the Gen1 stuff thinking they were going to end the figure. So if you want PAs to continue to provide Gen 1 products you need to show that support by purchasing those products. If you don't buy them, then there's no need for us to take our time to provide you with those products.
That's what I'm saying.
Thanks that Clarify things and i understand now what you are saying now
No one is telling you you need to buy the new car though. And frankly I DO get messages every year from my car manufacturer advertising the new version with minor improvements. You never know I may have the money to reinvest in a car after two years, but it's not required.
And frankly I don't have the money to replace my car every year, but once I did exchange my car after 18 months. And it was partly due to my preferred car dealer messaging me with a deal for an upgraded model.
But analogies can only go so far really.
I know but there is a lot that is saying to me I need to buy V6. Mostly the way releases have gone from this company for the past Decade or so I've been a customer here. Sure lots of people are saying G1 isn't going any where and will still be supported for some time but those words were said in the past too and yet it didn't play out that way. What is different now that should make me or anyone else believe it'll somehow be different this time?
I missed this earlier... but I feel compelled to comment.
Of course, I can only speak for myself.
It doesn't matter to me
1. Who may agree with me or not
2. Who may be analyzing me or not.
3. Who may be intimidating me or not.
I will always do what I think is right.
Always.
well said and i agree with you
Why would it be? Because traditionally, updates, especially one for relatively minor changes have been free to customers who bought the original. Historically it's only major revisions that are more or less completely reworked versions of the original are what gets charged for. Apparently by your thinking you feel Smith Micro should force people to pay whenever they come out with a service release for Poser. Fortunately Smith Micro and many other creators of software don't see things the way you do.
And because you don't know how to do it, it must be a 'relatively minor change' for D3D to retool GenX to support Gen2.
I see.
-- Morgan
I know, if I knew how to do it I'd cut D3D out of the equation completely but just because I don't know how to do it isn't justification for me to have to repay someone for something I bought relatively recently simply because someone else decided Genesis is better off being split into two figures rather then staying as one.
Because people see the abandonment of the Genesis concept (which is what Genesis 2 is, it is Genesis in name only) as a step backwards and not a move forward. An improved Genesis mesh would be one thing, but all Genesis 2 is, is an improved V4 and M4 mesh. Everything that made Genesis the versatile figure that it was has been chucked out the window so that vendors will be able to double sell their content which won't happen. There are already free male and androgynous morphs available for the Genesis 2 female so I predict the Genesis 2 male figure will end up becoming virtually unused and unsupported and the Genesis 2 female figure will be used as a unimesh.
Adding 2000 new polygons to the mesh has only resulted in a minor improvement to the figure. To use your car analogy. People who bought a 2011 Cadillac are now worried that GM is going to discontinue all support and service for their car because GM is telling them the 2011 Cadillac is a piece of crap and they need to buy the 2013 because it has fancier hubcaps.
As I said before, almost all this strife could have been avoided if Daz had simply not named this figure Genesis 2. It's not a Genesis figure.
Unfortunately I can't say anything to reassure you. my bad.
Not if it's a PA who mainly makes fix morphs, then one that doesn't need it is taking away his bread and butter. That wasn't exactly the point I was making though. The customers here have a herd mentality which is also part of why this end up being such a good release for Daz. So If I followed the herd and had a better figure that didn't need fix morphs then why would I buy Zev0's fix morphs he's released in the last month? Wouldn't it be better for Zev0 if Daz waited and allowed more of the customers wanting more realism, to buy Zev0's fix morphs and then release G2 at a later date when the sales of fix morphs has died off more? The people loyal to G1 likely already have zev0's fix morphs which may even add to their anger since they could have applied that money to buying the new figure rather then a fix morph the new figure might not need. Those who are fine with the new figure aren't likely to go back and buy zev0's fix morphs to make g1 more realistic because they can just use G2.
It might have been slightly better for Zev0's sales if the release were put off, sure. I can't say. But that's not a good reason to stop moving forward. Imagine what Zev0 can do with an additional, better figure. The Shape Shift morphs for one are going to be stunning on G2 because there's a better mesh and no pressure at all to develop them thinking of male shapes. They can complement the female figure and the female figure alone, and they are going to be beautiful. Same exact thing goes for any future aging, collision, movement, and fix morphs.
I'm still buying things for Genesis, it's multipurpose, fantastic, and likely will always be my goto figure for creatures until an improved androgynous base figure is developed. It's not being obsoleted for anyone unless their main use is female characters, in which case, well, old figures going obsolete is a good thing - it means technology is looking up.
You're not "repaying" anyone for anything. Your GenX for Genesis isn't going to stop working.
EDIT: Supporting an entire new figure is not the same thing as a "service release."
That is the crux of the matter isn't it? When genesis came out, it was marketted and hyped as the figure that would END that very need. All new characters were going to be made from the genesis. All clothes would fit everything from now on etc etc. A lot of people bought into that concept. Now they took a step back on that, and decided to release a "whole new figure" instead. In reality, two new figures, since they need a male too, and a kid figure if they even bother with it this time around.
I know in gen4 male vendor support lacked bigtime, and kids were non existent practically. The vendors all go by what sells, and apparently that is idealized perfect woman with big boobs, and slutty clothing. Going by that, who knows, maybe they won't even bother making a "G2" male and kid at all, if sales are really that crappy.
Greetings,
There is, in all groups, a tension between those who insist 'This is a fertile land and we will thrive if we remain here.' and those who think, 'I wonder what's over that next hill?'
-- Morgan
The sad truth is male content doesn't sell well. If the sales were better you'd see more of it. The females seem to be what everyone want and its backed up by the number of sales you have. Why would a PA spend 2 months working on a male to get a quarter of the money that the female character would get in the same time frame
So point in fact, why create 2 separate figures now? Why not just stick with the first genesis concept so that the vendors don't have double the workload and get to please both sides?
Sucks to be in a minority I guess lol. Genesis 1 solved that problem, well not solved, but at least made it not as bad. I supported people that make normal looking clothes, and some of them at least, could be used for males and females, of any particular age above 4 years old lol.
Since I don't think anyone here on any of these threads (with the exception of PAs maybe?) have seen the G2M figure, right now it is all speculation that morphs and cloths and poses and textures and everything else is not going to be compatible with the male figure. What if the underlying structure of the Male figure is the same as the female for the majority of things and have just gender / size (for kids) specific things for those that really are for women and not men, like size of breasts or where weight is on the heavies? Although, that would mean I have to keep using G1 for all my thai lady-boy renders, that is really an often neglected market by the big stores.
It would be a bad move for Daz to not have them be able to share as much as possible between the male and female characters and keep it "genesisy", one, despite all the cynics on here that love to speculate the doom and gloom or insist change is bad, I don't see them making. Ask yourself if the male figure and items made for either figure were usable on both without issue yet have the added gender specific details would you be so up in arms? What is the likely-hood Daz would abandon all the flexibility that G1 provided when that is the big thing they have been pushing all along? (note, those are hypothetical questions.. I'm sure a lot would still be up in arms because I haven't seen any change that Daz has done.. ever.. that wasn't met with cries of "this is the worst thing ever")
I didn't purchase the Pro bundle. I wasn't interested in most of the products. As it was, I only ever purchased two of the products that were in the pro bundle.
What I purchased was the Victoria 4.0 Complete bundle, which is now called the Victoria 4.2 Starter bundle. The regular price was and still is $49.95. It was on sale for 30% off for $34.97. However, when I checked my order, I saw there was a $$10.49 discount also applied to the order. Which is why my spreadsheet shows a price of $24.48 for the bundle. I don't remember (after all ... it was more than six years ago), why there was an additional discount for the bundle.
The list of products included in the Victoria 4.0 Complete / Victoria 4.2 Starter bundle is now listed as
Victoria 4.2 Base
Victoria 4.2 Morphs ++ (which included the genitalia)
Victoria 4 Skin Maps (Std Res)
Amarseda Hair
Basicwear for V4
However, the Developer Kit is not listed in the bundle, even though it was included at the time I purchased it.
The Victoria 6 Starter bundle costs $55.97 (30% off) / $39.18 (51% off PC) and includes
Victoria 6
Caped Rogue
Garden Party Dress
Nocturne Poses for V6
Nordic Hair
Charm Hair
Nyssa
Still, the V6 Starter bundle at $55.97 compared to $49.95 is more expensive. Granted, it's only a wee bit more than $5, and the starter bundle contains more content products than the V4 Starter bundle. Which again ... is why all this comparison of V4/V5/V6 sales numbers/possible sales numbers is like comparing apples to oranges.
As for why I quoted you? Convenience. You were the last post in the discussion about the V4 sales numbers. I wasn't directing my post at you ... anymore than I was directing at anyone else.
It's just my thoughts on the futility of comparing sales/numbers from seven years ago to those of last week.