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SF1 had broken fingers - I can't recall which, but one joint on each (probably the tip) didn't move. Dodger did release a fix, but it wasn't entirely successful. The Freaky Devils freebie, which was built on the Freaks, did do somewhat better but even then there was crunching in the knuckles as I recall - and in the past DAZ has been reluctant to make unilateral changes to content even if they own the rights.
And yes, when a given product/SKU is updated you get the update and not the original - that has affected one or two items in the store, as well as applications.
None of which has any obvious bearing on Genesis 1.
This was not in direct reference to Genesis 1 but the overall statement that thing will always be in your downloads. The example simply illustrates that you cannot always be certain something, even something that was paid for, will always be in your downloads.
The DS reference was that my product library lists it as DS4.5 but the download is DS4.6. Some users systems have issue with one version and not another. A user may need to download DS4.5 for whatever reason and not be able to because the download is for a different version.
I'd say that an active feature of the base software that gets dropped is a level above a plug in... though if we want to talk plug ins, we could go back to Morph Follower. That was a plug in (still sold in the store, in fact,) and I think most of us agree that it still works better for Gen4 in DS3 than it's nominal replacement does in DS4. One of the concerns I'm hearing here is that DS 4.8 or DS5 may end up doing something similar so that original Genesis doesn't function as well in those versions as in DS4.5 & 4.6.
And on a similar note, Genesis and DS4 didn't completely replace the functionality of Figure Mixer. They do let you do something similar, but with a different set of assets. While Figure mixer was far from perfect, it did have the significant perk of working with Gen3 assets, which made it quite useful for filling out background scenes... especially when you have a runtime filled with old gen 3 skins. By comparison, DS4 only lets you use some of those assets via the use of outside products like TC2. That's not a 1 to 1 exchange, that's taking an apple, substituting an orange, and if someone didn't already have TC2 and the necessary plug ins, asking them to pay for a knife to peel the orange with.
I don't think PC is a loss-leader for DAZ3D. Otherwise we don't have a gamble of Value category, which was specifically introduced to make people buy more PC items and not store them in wishlists, because PC wasn't making as much money as it needed to make. I believe I saw Laurie mention a couple of time that PC items should sell enough to make new items possible and there were some difficulties with that.
it would be nice, if there are really more items in it, that people would love to download or buy. most in the list are old or just to poor, missing quality (not the exact right words) but, they are mostly not the kind people really want, PA items are more hot and succesful and almost never in the list.
in the big list op $1.99 there is may me one that got 'm interested in.
why are the PA items not in that list?
i only buy some main figures here (not anymore momently) and some content elsewhere (as daz don't have it) or model my own.
The relevant term for PC items isn't "loss leader". It's "make it up on volume". After all, the marginal cost per unit on downloadable content is approximately zero.
You have to remember that the PC is a completely self contained club. It sources and maintains it's own content library separate to the main DAZ 3D store library.
Buh? Last I looked all PlatClub product are available in the main DAZ 3D store library just like every other DAZ Original product -- the difference being that PlatClub members pay a fee to buy PlatClub products at a reduced price (usually $1.99 or 2.99). Has this changed while I wasn't looking? Because otherwise I don't think "completely self contained . . . maintains it's own content library separate to the main DAZ 3D store library" accurately describes the situation.
Probably not quite. But they stand and fall on what they make from the content they have in the PC. Is how Laurie described it in the PC forum. I guess non members buying PC items through the store just helps their revenue.
The relevant term for PC items isn't "loss leader". It's "make it up on volume". After all, the marginal cost per unit on downloadable content is approximately zero.
Reread what I said, I compared it to something similar in the "Retail World" where there is a cost per unit. I said it was like a "loss leader" not that "The appropriate term for PC items is loss leader" You do understand the concept of something being like or similar to something else without being identical to something else don't you?
I don't think PC is a loss-leader for DAZ3D. Otherwise we don't have a gamble of Value category, which was specifically introduced to make people buy more PC items and not store them in wishlists, because PC wasn't making as much money as it needed to make. I believe I saw Laurie mention a couple of time that PC items should sell enough to make new items possible and there were some difficulties with that.
Like I just got done explaining to someone else when a person says something is "like" something else it doesn't mean it has to have exactly the same properties but can also allow for the things being compared to be similar.
Ditto here. Nothing from the Free Library ever showed up in my downloads, I had to save all of those to a separate folder. The Python was a weird sitch in and of itself, as it was in the a freebie library, then re-offered as a for purchase item at the same time the Cold Blooded texture pack for it came out. There were also a dozen or so free items that were made available through the PC forum that were never in my runtimes either.
I know a lot of free stuff I've gotten over the years shows up in my product library. Of course in part that's due to many of them being handled like an actual store item that gets discounted down to zero because it actually is a store item and is only offered for free for a limited time. It did used to be different, there did used to be free items that always were and always will be free like Armageddon V3 Dress Textures for MFD for example. These items ever had product id's that indicated it as a free item like in the example I gave the product id was ps_fr072 with the fr indicating it as a free item. It's been so long now I can't remember but I think it used to be you just downloaded the freebies directly and it didn't have to go on a sales order. I'm pretty sure the product library only contains things that actually appeared on a sales order even if the price ended up being zero.
it would be nice, if there are really more items in it, that people would love to download or buy. most in the list are old or just to poor, missing quality (not the exact right words) but, they are mostly not the kind people really want, PA items are more hot and succesful and almost never in the list.
in the big list op $1.99 there is may me one that got 'm interested in.
why are the PA items not in that list?
i only buy some main figures here (not anymore momently) and some content elsewhere (as daz don't have it) or model my own.
Well part of the problem I would say is that the PA's already take a significant hit on what they get from a sale and so they may be less inclined to take even less. Daz has more flexibility because they get their cut on everything sold no matter who makes it which gives them the luxury of allowing something to be deeply discounted since sales of other items will make up for the loss. Whereas an individual PA only has his or her items to make money from so if they discount an item they won't have sales from say Faveral's latest offering to make up for it unless of course the PA in question is Faveral.
it would be nice, if there are really more items in it, that people would love to download or buy. most in the list are old or just to poor, missing quality (not the exact right words) but, they are mostly not the kind people really want, PA items are more hot and succesful and almost never in the list.
in the big list op $1.99 there is may me one that got 'm interested in.
why are the PA items not in that list?
i only buy some main figures here (not anymore momently) and some content elsewhere (as daz don't have it) or model my own.
Well part of the problem I would say is that the PA's already take a significant hit on what they get from a sale and so they may be less inclined to take even less. Daz has more flexibility because they get their cut on everything sold no matter who makes it which gives them the luxury of allowing something to be deeply discounted since sales of other items will make up for the loss. Whereas an individual PA only has his or her items to make money from so if they discount an item they won't have sales from say Faveral's latest offering to make up for it unless of course the PA in question is Faveral.
Pretty sure PC items are buyouts, same as DAZ Originals. That makes them the same kind of gamble for both DAZ and the artist that DAZ Originals are. DAZ is betting they can make back more than the flat rate they paid for the product, and the artist is betting that the flat rate is more than they could make splitting 50/50 with DAZ on long-term sales.
...well PC release day and *Wow* a nice classy dress (love the 40s styles) and texture set that would be perfect for my ladies. Excited, I click on the product page and only to discover much to my disappointment it is for V6/G2F (and of course, Not compatible with the previous generation).
Meanwhile, for those still using Gen 4 (e.g. Poser, Carrara, etc), there's a sleazy ensemble better suited for fetish pics, and those of us who decide to stay with the original Genesis get a ridiculous fantasy dress with a gravity defying metal skirt I wouldn't download if it were a freebie.
Seeing that even PC clothing content going G2F really concerns me about Daz's "commitment" to continue support of the original Genesis.
Thankfully at least the PC Freebie of the month is a Road Ranger lookalike I can still use.
Blood Queen is a PA item. And while the style is not up to my taste, I won't consider Blood Queen as some kind of DAZ3D intentions to rob Genesis-supporting people of better clothes.
I agree about new PC clothes, I'm sad they are for G2F too.
Just buy V6, go to the Freepozitory, and pick up the Autofit clone already. If it means you'll stop belittling the vendors who support G2, and [counterintuitively, I might add] outright insulting those who are still creating for the older figures, I'll even get you a GC for it.
Just buy V6, go to the Freepozitory, and pick up the Autofit clone already. If it means you'll stop belittling the vendors who support G2, and [counterintuitively, I might add] outright insulting those who are still creating for the older figures, I'll even get you a GC for it.
You don't need to buy V6 to make your own G2F autofit clone for Genesis. I made a little tutorial about how to do it in case if anybody don't want to give support to V6 just to get an autofit clone.
You don't need to buy V6 to make your own G2F autofit clone for Genesis. I made a little tutorial about how to do it in case if anybody don't want to give support to V6 just to get an autofit clone.
...Oh, right. The autofit clone out there comes with a V6 ported to Genesis, but I think the files may be encoded separately. I didn't check myself.
Regardless, the offer still stands.
I like how you got the Genesis morphs to transfer into G2F; that will probably come in really handy for me until GenX gets updated.
And G2F morphs back to Genesis transfer is also possible to do :)
...I apologise for stepping on toes.
I'm just so frustrated with finally getting everything to the point I feel I can do something with it only to feel it will be all moot as the "new model" now gets all the attention.
It is so hard to find nice "everyday" styled clothing in the store here. Going though the offerings, a majority of clothing content is either Fantasy or Sci-Fi themed or "overly revealing" to use a less "derogatory" term. There have been a number of threads and posts over the years which deal with the topic. When I do see something that would work like Frivolous Forties, I naturally want to get it, especially when it's price fits my incredibly meager budget. When I see that It can't be used because I don't have the resources to invest in the "latest and greatest" it is a disappointment, one that is adding to an ever growing list of disappointments since the changeover in site and store direction/policy since last year. Good examples of this include the end of vouchers, The "BOGO concept" for sales, the progressive discount sales ("buy1 at x%, 2 at y%, etc"), and "devaluing" of the PC.
I still also feel my concern about an increasing lack of content support for the original Genesis is valid. I saw this happen with Gen4 when Genesis was released, and now I see it beginning again with the new G2F. While other stores continued to sell Gen4 material (due to issues with other applications' ability to support Genesis), I don't see the same necessarily occurring for the original Genesis as it is still primarily a "Daz Studio" figure.
On it's own G2F is of little use for my work as I can't turn into a kid, preteen, or a teen until those "versions" of G2 are made available (it took nearly two years for a viable Teen figure to be released for Genesis and there is yet to be even a K4 body shape - which most likely will not happen now). Even without V6, to make G2F "workable" requires an investment in the morphs bundle and V4 clone so one can use V4 maps (which several of the Gen5 figures are based on) and autofit (then only for V4 based clothing).
...not worth the cost for a figure that is not as versatile as the original was without having to go through a bunch of extra work to make it so.
I refuse to buy V6 (and contribute to its actual sales numbers) while DAZ belittles me and my art-supply needs by catering to male gaze privilege with the versatility-gutted G2F. When there's an equivalent male version, a gets-the-job-done transfer utility so I can dress G2 women in the G2 men's non-sexualized clothes, and the V6 packs are off at 58% again, then I'll buy. (Maybe -- good all-round prevgen-to-G2 support and kids support are important to me too, and I'm leery of having to buy two G2 versions of products to G1's one.)
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@ Kyoto Kid You might have seen this already, but if not, perhaps this could help you? Since you did like those clothes, and according to this post they have fitted those clothes to genesis 1 (or v5, don't remember now at the time I am typing) either way, I send the link in case you have msised that and is interested.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25022/#369422
(tried to send a pm, but it claimed your inbox were full)
/Carola
Thanks Kattey! Haven't had time to get into that yet, but I appreciate it being there for when I do. Despite my bitter disappointment at DAZ for refusing to support its dues-paying Genesis1-using PlatClub members by including a version for us in products like this, I'm not really surprised.
This is a good post and the male gaze privilege is a term I have never heard before. I do actually agree.
I refuse to buy V6 (and contribute to its actual sales numbers) while DAZ belittles me and my art-supply needs [snip]
You don't actually need V6 to use that autofit clone, only if you want the V6 shape in Genesis.
Also, I'm sure you know that "belittles" doesn't have any negative connotations using that definition, don't you? It just means to cause something to appear small by comparison - DAZ has hardly been speaking ill of you which is the only alternative interpretation. If G2 so easily makes you and Genesis appear small, that says something good about it.
If you're frightened the new figure will dominate the market, there must be some incredible improvements to cause even you to come to the conclusion, and there's no reason for DAZ not to do their best to innovate. If you're not frightened the new figure will dominate the market, then I don't see what the hubbub is about. Remember, the market's driven by what PAs want to create, hardly by DAZ itself. V4's still going strong in other places, the males get less support no matter how nice DAZ tries to make their figures or Pro Bundles...and you know what drives PAs? The quality of the figure they're creating for. The number of people who use it. People are not going to continue creating for G2 if it genuinely is a terrible figure, especially with both Genesis and G2 free to anyone who care to click a few buttons.
If you truly believe G2 is a step backwards, sit back a while and it will fail. Just as we've seen plenty of third-party and SM figures fail, and older figures fail because they couldn't get a leg up on the competition. Complaining about PAs because they support G2, and insulting the ones who still support old figures as being the dregs of the improbable slutwear market is certainly not the way to go, and quite frankly that's the turn conversations have been taking lately.
If you must point out flaws with G2, with Genesis, compare them to each other on every possible level, by all means, continue to do so. That's the way innovation is driven. But for the love of common sense and decency, could everyone STFU about the vendors unless you're actually critiquing their product* rather than choice of figure?*
*Mentioning "I couldn't buy this because I only use X and it's built for Y" is not a critique, just a friendly announcement of what purchasing demographic you fit into.
And Daz is selling V6 at such a rate they sent out another coupon. $6 off $30 or more.
Was that only for V6 customers? Because I just got it and I didn't buy her.
No, I think it is just a marketing, as usual. Got the same coupon. Never touched V6 with a 20' pole.
I don't have v6, can't afford her. Think it's just a thing to hook you into spending more moolah.
I agree, Jasmine. I've been working in Daz Studio since 2005. I spent a lot of hours invested in Victoria and Aiko 3, and I learned A LOT. I produce comics with this stuff--non remunerative comics, I might add, so I don't need the "hyper realism" that the community chases. I'm perfectly happy working with Vicky 4, and I haven't even been tempted to download Studio 4+ (still working in the last Studio 3 release). I just don't look to DAZ for models anymore. I find TONS of stuff still being released almost daily for the Gen 4 models at other sites like Renderosity, and RDNA. And as long as that remains true, I'll stay with the Gen 4 and DS3 software because it is all I need.
Personally, I have yet to see a Genesis model that compared favorably with those produced by 3rd-party vendors/artists for Vicky 4. The genesis model faces are not as feminine (they all come out looking like Lady Wrestlers, to me), and I find them unappealing. The Genesis teens look pretty good, and I like them, but I haven't any interest in the Genesis model or what it will take for me to start working in it. So, Daz doesn't want my money? OK. Others do.
I DO think that the company COULD (if it had the will) support both the Genesis model and the Gen 3's and 4's if they chose to do that. I think there's value in them all, as evidenced by the healthy businesses of 3rd-party sites/vendors dealing in the older models.
Too bad. I had hopes when I first read about Genesis that it would be the can't miss product for me. Turns out, it isn't even relevant.
Thanks.
Talentbuyer
Fort Worth
This entire thread seems to be getting a bit too personal for my tastes. If you have criticisms to level at the figure, then by all means level them at the figure. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but for the love of rendering, can we all just stop fighting amongst each other?
All that we're seeing now are the same recycled arguments which have been stated time and again in this thread and in other threads. Can't we just figure out a way to put this behind us so we can discuss something more productive? Genesis 1 continues to receive support and products, and there's currently no G2 Male or Child so you can at least rest easy that it's not replacing Genesis entirely just yet.
I admit, I bought Victoria 6. Maybe this makes my opinion biased, maybe you even consider my opinion void as a result. While I freely admit that I'm not convinced that it couldn't have been made a unisex figure, I do understand the reasons for making it the way they have and also the benefits that the new mesh provides. I can understand why some would sing its praises, and why some would condemn the concept. I get it, really I do. Just read some of my earlier posts and you'll notice that I was even strongly against the idea myself!
We need to find an amicable way to draw this long running argument to a conclusion. There really is no need to outright insult the hard work PA's put into creating content simply because your favourite figure isn't supported, whether that's Genesis or Genesis 2. There's no need to belittle other people for having a different opinion either. I'm not going to pretend I don't have my own concerns about the future, but until Daz reveal their future plans, all of that speculation is for naught.
Can we please put this baby to bed? To be frank, there's only so far we can run the same track before we get back to where we started.
As a new person, I feel like I came into this 3d world creation at the wrong time when something new just came out and competition is coming around the corner. I actually enjoy this new hobby and having fun learning the new techniques about genesis2/v6, rendering, lighting, ect. from the experts. After reading these type of threads, it put me into a situation if I made the wrong choice investing into this new product from all the backlash.