Mirroring JCMs
Jim_1831252
Posts: 728
I've been following Esha's refined rigging tutorial to wrap my head around creating JCMs and creating morphs for tricky areas. I've had a few rough spots, but found ways to overcome them, but now I'm stuck on mirroring JCMs. Either I'm missing something or Esha forgot to outline one final step after mirroring the morphs. What I end up with is a JMC that overrides it's mirror, which in a lot of situations is going to end real bad.
First of all, yes I know this is a horrible fix morph. Right now I'm testing out the work flow start to finish, as I just got finished making a beautiful fix morph that made the gemetry explode (no I didn't weld or delete anything). Originally I have the morph applied to the left side. Works fine, but when I mirror the morph it does this, overriding the left.
I recently played with the attenuation settings and found that I can use weight maps to define the strength of the morph (which is cool), but found that this offers only a partial solution in this case. Is there another way to do this?
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This is the morph I spent like an hour on, but it turns out lightwave messes up the vertice order when cut/coping to a new layer, so when it was imported back into Studio I end up with exploding mesh.
Are you using Lightwave 2015? I find that if I keep the main figure in the first layer and paste my stuff in other layers, Lightwave will preserve the vertex order. But yeah, you can't cut&paste sections to another layer and back. That'll mess things up. If you need to work on a sub-section, I'd recommend using the "Hide Selected" and "Hide Unselected" tools in the View tab. For morphs, using Endomorphs is also very useful so you can always go back to the original.
I do not know, it help some,, (Because I can not follow all your step) but If you hope to use Morph mirroring with morph loader, I remember base mesh need to keep perfect symmetly , Or morph loader symmetly option not work as I expected.
I suppose you hope to make JCM for short pant, right? but your pants mesh seems have belt , and the geometry can not be symmetly. you may need to separate belt then make it as different clothing, to use symmetly option I think.
About most of 3d aprication, Symmetly option often may need perfect symmetly mesh. (when try to make mirroer morph (or mirroer shape key etc)
@AlienRenders: I'm not sure what you mean by main "figure", but I found, for instance, if I copy and paste the pants (which is a discrete mesh) to a new layer it will result in exploding mesh when moved back to Studio. I am using LW 11.6.3. It's a very annoying limitation, but I can work with it. As you said, you can simply hide elements.
@Kitakoredaz the pants are completely symetrical, so I don't have any trouble moving the morph from left to right. The problem is that when I mirror the morph from left to right it is overriding the morph on the left when activated. The belt is something I will worry about at a later stage.
OK, if actually mirroer wrok well,,, my assamption is, you seems set wrong name when swap morph in morph loader.
eg,, I made morph target, = pJCMaaaR.obj . it is morph for Rside. then I use morph loader, and overwrite auto generated pJCMaaaR (parameter Name)
then next I plan to make pJCMaaaL by same morrph target , pJCMaaaR.obj with swap X option.
I set morph target = PJCMaaaR.obj but set morph name (which I plan to overwrite) should be "pJCMaaaL" from your pic,, you seems use same name.
then the morph are mirroered buit it overwrite same morph which already you made.?
Ah, yes, it appears I am using the wrong obj, but that's not the case. I actually duplicated the left morph file and simply renamed one to R. I actually just tested using the original L file, and still end up with the same right overriding the left.
I just tried exporting the mesh as above in the first image, then re-importing as the jcm for the right. It still overrides the left. I tried deleting both jcms and re-importing and the problem seems to be about the same. There must be something I'm doing wrong.
Ok,, actually I have one scene which use short pants, though the character not pose but I make overwrite thin side-to side JCM to see how it work.
then I do not know, if it is not your case,, but I made like that,, you can check my pic, if something diffefrent or not,,
1. I pose my actor,, bend Left side,, limit 85. then export figure and pants to blender, after that, make morph target for left side JCM = pJCMThighSide_85_L obj in blender
2. untill I import morph,, I set auto generated pJCMThighSide_85_L , to 0 (hidden parameter) . (hidden parameter of the pants) because I overwrite the JCM. and I need to use reverse option.
3 then I import my morph target, set name should be pJCMThighSide_85_L
4 after import and overwrite morph, I reset parameter once, to check actually it overwrited correctly.
next I hope to overwrite pJCMThighSide_85_R , by use same morph target with morph loader swap otpion.forutnately, this pants seems clean symmetly. then I may need not make new morph target , I can re-use same morph target obj.
5. I set pose with symmetly option, then my character bend bend Right side,, limit 85. then this time, I set auto generated pJCMThighSide_85_R , to 0 (genarated morph)
6 import same morph target, but just set morph name as pJCMThighSide_85_R . with swap x option. (use reverse option )
7 then reset my parameter once, to load it correctly. and test pose (both side legs to side at same time)
about my case,, it seems work ,, will it help some?
Yes, I've gotten that far, but what happens when you try to mirror the morph? I'm doing exactly what you are doing, but you'll need to make the same correction for the right. I've been fiddling around some more and find as soon as I apply the morph to the other side, mirrored or a unique (new) morph it messes with the left.
yes, 5.6.7 is actually I use swap option. . and though I pose one side,, but I know there should be another way,
eg pose both leg side-to side at same time. then export pants with posing actor (template) . In your 3d apricaiton, make morph target for left side only.
then import it to overwrite left side JCM . (set left JCM which you overwite as zero )
after that swap morph with same morph target may work I think. (after set r-side parameter as zero.)
Sorry, forgot to refresh! I see that you've managed to get it mirrored nicely. I'll try this once more before I throw everything in the fire and go spend the rest of my days in a cave.
hope it work for you.. And thanks,, , because I exported the character to blender with those clothings, and I was playing the shirt mat today,, after I see this topic, I felt I need to make some JCM for posing well ^^
then,, my second plan
"pose both leg side-to side at same time. then export pants with posing actor (template) . In your 3d apricaiton, make morph target for left side only." is wrong and bad idea.
after make one side,, . it include defomation which I made, then not work (or make wrong mirroer morph), forget it please ^^;
It works! Thank you. I was making the obvious error of having both legs posed when miroring the morph, thus the mirrored morph was reversing the morph from the pose. Is that right? I feel silly now.
Thanks kitakore.
I think I prefer the triax rigs. I really don't mind working with the extra weight maps as I find it calls for fewer and smaller JMC fixes.
I'm excited! I finally got the morph done and mirrored, and nothing exploded!
In case anyone is wondering, the pants aren't my model, but after all the refits, re-uving, and rigging, I feel like it is. This comes from the Kallisto: Mutant Warrior by Eloroncedark. It is a marvelously modeled piece of kit and I have it all rigged and weigted for G2F, but I wanted to try out an aditional re-rig for G3F (because I like pain)..
Yes your are right. And actually I felt it was good idea too ^^; . (try to swap one side to another side, from both legs side to side (symmetricao pose) soruce mesh )
I think,, DS morph loader swap-X option simply make mirroer of "import moprh target obj" (though we can not check it, untill import morph target and apply new parameter as 100%)
About this case, we need to overwrite JCM morph with "reverse defomation option", from posed and defromed soruce shape. then we can overwrite JCM as "delta from the posed source mesh". When make first side (Left side) , it should work without problem.
But next when swap morph and generate Right side, import moprh target will be swapped correctly, but soruce mesh (posed figure mesh is not same as before. Because we already overwrite left sdie JCM, and now the left side JCM is applied. that means, new generate JCM not mirroer of another side. include new delta about the left side which we overwrite already,
To work correctly,, we need to apply old left side JCM for left side, and set our hand made JCM.as 0%,(or remove temporaly) but usually we do not keep old JCM (because we hope overwrite it,,^^;) though we can do it,, eg keep old auto generated left side JCM by saving as different name, then apply it to 100% , and set clean JCM as zero (which we imported and work as we designed) , then use swap and import morph target,, as we can see,, it need complex step .though I feel it seems somehow more presise. we can use same soruce wihen import two morph target,,,(about some case,, this way work better I feel)
Thanks again for your help. I'm working on new JCMs now, and it all makes more sense.