Rigging from not-the-Null Pose
CrissieB
Posts: 195
Hi All,
I'm modeling a strap-dress and I need to rig it with G3F already posed. I first modeled it with her in the Null Pose and rigged it with the Transfer Utility, and the elbow, wrist, and thigh straps deformed when I moved her to the dress' basic pose. There was also a lot of poke-through that wasn't present with her in the Null Pose.
So I exported both the posed G3F and the posed dress from DAZ (as separate objs), imported both into Blender, fixed the poke-through, and reshaped the deformed straps to look right in the dress' basic pose. (Yes, I know I still need to smooth the new mesh. I also need to model the buckles, rings, linking chains, and the skirts that will hang beneath the shoulder and waist straps.)
I updated the geometry of the posed mesh in DAZ, and the straps went to weird places. I deleted the dress and re-imported the posed dress mesh, and it fits fine on G3F in the dress' basic pose, as shown in the renders below. But if I run Transfer Utility with G3F in that pose, again, I get weirdness.
How do I use the Transfer Utility to rig a garment that was modeled to fit G3F already posed? I know it's possible because artists model shoes to fit G3F with her feet posed, as Allen shows in this DAZ tutorial.
Thanks for your help,
Crissie
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Comments
The dress is already modeled to fit G3F in that pose? if so, then when you do the transfer utility, make sure to select the option to reverse source shape from target.
Although you can use the Bake Rotations command (in the Joint Editor option menu) to rig in a non-zero pose, then again on the rigged dress to set it to start from the real zero pose, the usual fix here would be to create JCMs to correct for the distortion and/or to adjust the weights so that the straps didn't stretch.
Hi kaotkbliss,
I just tried your suggestion. Here's a screenshot of the object file, fitting the posed figure:
Here's a screenshot of my Transfer Utility settings:
Here's a screenshot of the result:
Did I miss a setting?
Hi Richard,
Your first option sounds like what Allen follows in his tutorial on rigging high-heeled shoes. Would the workflow for that be:
(1) Pose G3F in the dress' default pose; (2) Use Joint Editor>Bake Joint Rotations on G3F; (3) Load dress and run Transfer Utility; (4) Use Joint Editor>Bake Rotations on the dress; (5) return G3F to Null Pose; (6) Dress will follow G3F to Null Pose (albeit probably with some mesh distortion); (7) Use Joint Editor>Bake Rotations on both G3F and the dress; (8) Pose G3F and the dress in the dress' default pose; (9) Save As>Support Asset>Figure/Prop Asset; (10) Save As>Wearables Preset?
If so, I tried that and it went wrong at step 3. The dress didn't load properly on G3F, once I'd baked her joint rotations. I didn't see any change in her position when I did that, but there must have been one.
As for JCMs, I've no idea what workflow to use. I think I understand how to rigidify the wrist and elbow straps so they won't deform when her arms move. But I can't see how I would edit the dress in the Null Pose to correct poke-through that isn't there until I move G3F (and the dress) to the dress' default pose.
Pose the base figure, Bake rotations, rig the dress, put the figure or the dress in the base T pose, Bake rotations on the dress should be the steps.
For JCMs, you do them one at a time for each affected bone and bend (quite possibly one for positive bend, one for negative) - export the mesh with one bend set, use your modeller to fix the deformation, load as morph with reverse Deformations on (so you just get the chnages you made), use ERC Freeze to link the JCM to the bend.
Using JCMs will work, or should work, for all poses - rigging to a particualr pose is good only for that pose (in which case you might as well just fix the issues and load as a static OBJ parented to the figure, no need to rig).
I think on your target item, the item shape should be default, not current Although on the source it should be current (because it's changed)
Oops, missed that - yes, that is correct (though since the current shape is the base shape that may not matter).
Hi kaotkbliss,
I tried with the target item shape at Default, and got the same result as with the target itsem shape as Current. I also tried with the template at Default rather than Dress>Knee-Length and that result was even stranger. I also tried with the Template at Full Body, and that didn't work either.
So I went back and tried with the source and target items at Current, template Dress>Knee-Length, and reverse source rigging checked. I could restore the fit of the thigh straps simply by reversing the thigh rotations from G3F. Each G3F thigh side-to-side rotation is 4.5 degrees inward, so I made the dress' thigh side-to-side rotation 4.5 degrees outward. But reversing G3F's collar, shoulder, and forearm rotations on the dress didn't restore the fit there.
Hi Richard,
As before, I tried loading the dress on G3F and then baking G3F's joint rotations. Again, I don't see any position change in G3F, but there must be subtle changes because the dress no longer fit.
So I went ahead and ran the TU, then deleted G3F, then loaded a new G3F and put her in the same pose (to 'unbake' the joint rotations). The rigged dress fit perfectly ...
... until I parented it to G3F. Then, basically, the same problems I had with kaotkbliss' workflow. Once parented, the dress no longer fits. This truly has me befuddled....
Hi Richard,
In his tutorial for rigging high-heeled shoes to fit a posed foot, Allen includes these steps:
Do I need to record the values of the pJCMs for G3F in the dress' default pose, then reapply them after I bake her joint rotations, before rigging the dress?
By the way, I decided not to model the dress in the Null Pose because there will be connecting pieces. Each wrist strap will be linked to the waist strap by a short chain. Each elbow strap will be linked to the shoulder strap by short chains, and to each other by a short bar. Thus, a character wearing the strap dress would not be able to stand in the Null Pose. More's the point, I don't see a way to model those linking pieces with the dress in the Null Pose. So I need to find a way to rig the dress in with it and the character in the dress' basic pose.
But I can't leave the dress as a static object because it does allow some movement. The character can bend and twist her torso, move her hands up-down-in-out slightly, bend her hips and thighs (if she bends her thighs together), sit, and even take small steps using her knees, ankles, and feet. I need to rig the dress to follow her movements.
And lest someone say "Well, DAZ wasn't programmed for BDSM-wear" ... I would run into the same problems if I were modeling a structured jacket or blazer. A structured jacket or blazer should not 'fit' correctly if the wearer's arms are straight out to his/her sides, in the DAZ Null Pose. The shoulders should hunch up, the back should crease and lift, the front panels should lift out to the sides (if unbuttoned) or bow out and lift (if buttoned) ... because its inner canvassing structure is tailored for the arms to be down at the sides.
Simply, there are some garments that it just doesn't make sense to model in the Null Pose ... so it should be possible to rig them in the 'base' pose for which the garment is designed.
Yes, the JCMs need to be included, and there will be a lot of them I suspect. While it's true it wouldn't cover the general case, would using props rather than part of a fitted item of clothing for the restraints work here?
Hi Richard,
I thought about a collection of props and, again, the issue is that the items are linked. Re-posing each strap and their connecting pieces for each character movement would be a nightmare for users. I'd rather work out that nightmare myself, in rigging the garment. Ultimately, I'll have to manually rig the connecting pieces, making the waist-to-wrist chains children of the waist strap, each side's chain with a point-to to the ring on that side's wrist strap. And something similar with the back-strap-to-elbows connection. My goal is that, at most, for any pose that the dress allows, a user should only need to make easy adjustments to the connecting pieces.
I'm still not sure how I'll handle the skirts. The dress will have an upper skirt that hangs beneath the chest strap almost to the waist belt, and a lower skirt that hangs beneath the waist belt to perhaps mid-thigh. I want them to be individually hideable, so the user can make the dress discreet (for a public scene, perhaps at a club) or revealing (for an intimate scene). Each skirt will need to respond to several G3F bones, and the base dress will also have parts that respond to the same bones, so I may need to make each skirt a separate garment that parents and fits to the base dress.
I went through Allen's step-by-step workflow written for rigging high-heeled shoes ... and, even after reapplying the pJCMs, baking G3F's joint rotations changed her position enough that the dress no longer fits.
I guess the only solution is to bake G3F's joint rotations, reapply the pJCMs, export that mesh, and re-sculpt the dress to fit that slightly-different position.
And that didn't work either. I can rig the dress to fit G3F with her joint rotations baked, but then that's G3F's Null Pose. If I delete her and import a new G3F, so her Null Pose is the actual Null Pose, and then pose her in the dress' base pose ... the dress doesn't because her joint rotations aren't baked.
The problem, plainly, is that baking the joint rotations changes G3F's position enough that a dress modeled for the unbaked pose no longer fits ... and a dress modeled for the baked pose won't fit an un-baked G3F.
I don't see a way out of this loop....
I guess at this point the only option is to go back and remodel the dress to fit the Null Pose, rigidify the elbow and wrist straps to keep them from changing shape when I move G3F into the dress' base pose, and make JCMs joint rotations to fix the poke-through and distortion there. Given that the dress' base pose includes a total of 2 collar, 3 shoulder, 1 forearm, and 1 thigh rotation (for each side) I guess that shouldn't be too onerous.
It's just 14 morphs ... to fit 1 pose ... and I have absolutely no clue which morph adjustments to put in which of the collar and shoulder rotations to fix the poke-through that only happens in that pose....
Okay, I think I've got it ... or at least now I know how I'll get there....
I remodeled the dress for the G3F Null Pose, with a denser poly count (about 6500 polys) for better smoothing and to eliminate poke-through. I also moved the elbow straps a bit higher on her arms, to reduce the deformation when G3F is moved to the dress' basic pose. There's still a bit of deformation on those straps in back -- the edges should be smooth, as they are in the Null Pose -- but I guess I'll need to fix that with a morph. Bringing her legs together also makes the thigh strap bow up slightly but, again, I can fix that with a morph.
The dress 'floats' a bit over her shoulders, but I haven't solidified the straps yet. Giving them thickness will solve that 'float.' If not, I can resculpt the dress to fit more snugly over her shoulders and, if necessary, do a morph to depress G3F's skin under the straps.
As for the connecting pieces, I think I can model those on the waist and back of the posed mesh to get the distances correct, copy them to the Null Pose mesh, and rig them to point-to their link points on the corresponding straps.
Then on to the skirt pieces that will hang beneath the shoulder and waist straps....
This is a pretty challenging task you've set yourself - you'll note that things like SickleYield's TiedUp sets rarely try to make figures. Some degree of compromise between look and practicallity is required with many items, unfortunately.